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i want to know what people think of rasicm and feminism in this country. police brutality against african americans is insane. however sometimes i think the race card is played to much with black americans. and no one is paying attention to the other races. women as well are being treated poorly. and!!!!!!! trandsgender people, bi sexual/pan sexuals and binary gender people ware treated as if they do not exist ever since gay marriage became legal. i want to hear some opinions and get some conversations going.

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Hi iamnietzche: Welcome to the forum. As you may know, this section of the forum is for Liberals only.... to include all those on the left of the political spectrum and that includes us socialists of course. So opinions in the Liberals Only Room are going to be from a left leaning perspective. If you want to converse with racist. sexist homophobes, Islamaphobes, you name it, there are some available, one flight up, in the No Holds Barred section. Most will tell you what they think with no prodding.

 

I feel excessive profiling, brutality and murder of black people, by police, is the new Jim Crow. That portion of police who abuse their power, usually claiming the victim resisted, are now being reveal as never before by the proliferation of devices that can record the true story on video. The militarization of police forces across the country, is another problem. IMO, police should be trained with a heavy emphasis on de-escalating emotionally charged situations. But as things stand now, the opposite seems to be true.... Police training concentrates on domination and control by force multiplication, often using violence far in excess of what's needed. And it's especially true in regard to Black people and the Left. Many in the Occupy Wall St. movement were made to lie in rows on the concrete and punished on the spot with massive canisters of pepper spray. An exception seems to be affluent, armed, White domestic occupiers/terrorists, like in Oregon, who, so far, seem to be above the law.... A different, but related, subject.

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I don't think of either one as they one or the other have nothing to do with me or my life in general.

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I don't think of either one as they one or the other have nothing to do with me or my life in general.

 

I identify with ordinary Black people. I feel it's in the best interests of ordinary Whites to make common cause with ordinary Blacks because their best interests and ours are ultimately the same. The only differences that count, between people are the ones separating ordinary people from the very rich.... The interests of those two groups are at odds. Cosmetic differences have been a major tool to prevent people with common interests from making common cause. Racial differences have helped the plutocracy to divide and control the masses, duping ordinary Whites into feeling superior

 

Economically ordinary people need to unite according to what really counts instead of allowing themselves to be tribalized by religion, geography, ethnicity and race.

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I identify with ordinary Black people. I feel it's in the best interests of ordinary Whites to make common cause with ordinary Blacks because their best interests and ours are ultimately the same. The only differences that count, between people are the ones separating ordinary people from the very rich.... The interests of those two groups are at odds. Cosmetic differences have been a major tool to prevent people with common interests from making common cause. Racial differences have helped the plutocracy to divide and control the masses, duping ordinary whites into feeling superior

 

Economically ordinary people need to unite according to what really counts instead of allowing themselves to be tribalized by religion, geography, ethnicity and race.

 

I grew up in the south around a lot of black people, a good ratio of about half white half black, so a sort of model of integration. I dont even have a southern accent. On the other hand, I lived in Portland Maine and mixed with radical left types. Some of the more uniform of them such as "Green Party", which I still prefer to Democrats, politicized black people and hardly any blacks lived in Portland. I myself volunteered a lot in Portland and even taught African refugees English for free and have certificates of award for doing it, but the use of Martin Luther King by the Green Party in particular disturbed me, as they did what I have read: moderated King's radicalism, referred to him as an example of Christian leadership.

 

After moving back into more normal areas of the USA that have black people again, I was slowly readjusted to reality, and back to normal thinking, where black is just a normal neighbor pedestrian rather than a politicized entity that demanded some strange recognition! I really had to leave there to get my head back together.

 

Also the feminists in that little city were much more divorced from reality. So again, after leaving, I readjusted slowly to women just being normal women around instead of needing special recognition.

 

I prefer to think of both women and blacks as "Pedestrians". I am pedestrian, they are pedestrian. We are equally pedestrians.

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i want to know what people think of rasicm and feminism in this country. police brutality against african americans is insane. however sometimes i think the race card is played to much with black americans. and no one is paying attention to the other races. women as well are being treated poorly. and!!!!!!! trandsgender people, bi sexual/pan sexuals and binary gender people ware treated as if they do not exist ever since gay marriage became legal. i want to hear some opinions and get some conversations going.

I would argue that there is a concerted push by the wealthy to magnify all these differences between people. It is the old tactic of "divide and conquer." The more division that can be generated the less likely we are to notice we are being robbed by the rich. They get the money and the power, and we get to hate our neighbors.

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I dont really like white people needing recognition either, like this new trend of "recognize whites". I don't see why you have to do anything. It's perplexing how difficult people like to make an issue of everything. I have to say I prefer to ignore race and gender. Rise above this shit.

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Cosmetic differences have been a major tool to prevent people with common interests from making common cause. Racial differences have helped the plutocracy to divide and control the masses, duping ordinary Whites into feeling superior

 

Economically ordinary people need to unite according to what really counts instead of allowing themselves to be tribalized by religion, geography, ethnicity and race.

 

This is mostly true, but not entirely true: it isn't business or the rich dividing people anymore. Business has learned that where some members of any group have talent, they can use that talent to increase profit.

 

For example. I work for a high-tech company that employs people of many different religions, ethnicities and sexual preferences. The majority are Christian of one variety or another, but there are Muslims, Hindus, Jews and one obvious Sikh. There is one transgender person who is visibly transitioning. There are black people who are engineers, group leaders, techs and facilities support staff.

 

It's not because the company is enlightened or anything like that (although I'm sure management would like to claim that :P ). It's because the company's raison d'etre is to make a profit, and these are people that help them make a profit.

 

So if business and rich people don't benefit from division and tribalization, who does? Here are my suggestions:

  • Religious organizations: believe what we believe or you're going to hell. (Note that liberal versions of many religions have stopped doing that, most notably the Catholic Church, to my great surprise.)
  • Politicians: Remember Romney's 47% comments? Cruz's "New York values"? Trump's Muslim and Mexican hate speech?
  • Politicans using religion: Just recently, Dave Brat, representative for Virginia's 7th district attacked Obama for using ideas from religion, because, he said conservatives own the entire tradition.
  • Special interest organizations. This is tricky because they usually start off by defending the interests of a disadvantaged group, in reaction to that group being targeted. After a while, they may promote division for their own benefit. (Examples: Black Panther movement, Jewish Defense League, and the radical feminist writers that claim that any sex between a man and woman is inherently an act of rape.)
  • Obvious racists like Aryan Nations, white power people, and their ilk. they're encouraged by the above three classes. I believe this group to be between 20% and 30% of the population as a whole, but mostly silent.

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There are plenty of employers who practice enlightened self interest. But still too many that practice discriminatory hiring.

http://fortune.com/2015/08/24/target-discriminatory-hiring/

Target

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/22/mcdonalds-discrimination-lawsuit_n_6523300.html

McDonalds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/26/ruby-tuesday-accused-of-employment-discrimination-against-men/

Ruby Tuesday

And lots of lower profile employers who are more likely to get away with it.

 

A huge problem with our political system is how easily a good portion of the electorate can be poisoned with hate using largely invented and highly promoted wedge issues like forced birth, racism, anti-gay agenda, second amendment interpretation, etc. These things are meant to serve as emotional diversions from the historical upward transfer of wealth happening now.

 

It is no accident that 150 years after reconstruction, mainly Republican politicians are still spouting rhetoric which pits group against group. These politicians are the same ones who receive legalized bribes in return for their efforts to shrink government, wage endless war, annihilate unions, give handouts to corporations, do away with Social Security and Medicare, etc.

 

Race hatred and other forms of tribalism are being used to destroy the middle class and increase the dominance of Plutocracy.

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I think the economic numbers show the disparity between white and black very well. Look at the number of incarcerated black men as opposed to other minorities. Also look at the number of unemployed young black males.

It's very true that we need to illustrate similar disparities with hispanics and women as well as all minorities including gay, lesbian, and what have you...

 

Focusing on the black lives matter issue does not in anyway detract from these other important issues, I believe as Blu suggested, that focusing on black rights and many of the issues, especially in urban settings, is in all peoples interest. True focus on the black lives matter movement and making needed changes to that end enhances all other minority issues as well as that of the dwindling or almost nonexistent middle class.

 

Stopping the division between all people that too many groups most especially on the right force down our throats is always a good idea. This nonsense about the war on the rich bull hockey is another red herring we could all do without!

 

I'm definitely for comprehensive immigration reform as well equality in the workplace for all people, poor whites included!

 

Peace!

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You should look into intersectionality. Women and people of colour face oppression. If you are disadvantaged in one way, that does not negate privilege in another. So, if you are a black man, you still benefit from male privilege but experience racism. If you're a white woman you benefit from white privilege but still experience sexism. A black woman experiences racism and sexism, often together, though she could be advantaged in some way (if she is straight, doesn't have a disability or mental illness, is rich, etc.

 

So black men can be sexist. White women can be racist.

 

But women cannot be sexist and black people cannot be racist. Because both are prejudice + power.

 

You have to be aware of that.

 

Many anti-racists and feminists don't realize that. There are terms "white feminists" (those who marginalize women of colour), "Ho-Teps" (anti-racism activists who are sexist), "brogressives", etc etc.

 

It's not a race card being played. We need to fight against all these kinds of marginalization and we can.

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A huge problem with our political system is how easily a good portion of the electorate can be poisoned with hate using largely invented and highly promoted wedge issues like forced birth, racism, anti-gay agenda, second amendment interpretation, etc.

That's not a problem with our political system. That's inherent in people. Statistical distributions being what they are for large populations, it's a safe bet that about 30% of any large enough population will be easily led to hateful attitudes ... because they already feel that way without being led.

 

If you think our political system is unique in having that problem, have you ever seen a political system in which opportunistic creeps couldn't exploit the natural hateful attitude people have?

 

As it happens, for a large diverse society like ours, despite the 30% who sicken me, and all the racist crap that goes on, western democracies are remarkably good at keeping the peace. You wouldn't want to be a Gypsy in Hungary right now.

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That's not a problem with our political system. That's inherent in people. Statistical distributions being what they are for large populations, it's a safe bet that about 30% of any large enough population will be easily led to hateful attitudes ... because they already feel that way without being led.

 

The United State lags behind most of the first world in education. To fix that would require changes in our political system. It would have to veer to the left.

 

If education, all the way through graduate school was embedded in our system, fewer people would be gullible enough to swallow the message of hate and division. Fewer would lose sight of the best interests of themselves and their loved ones. Fewer would be blinded by patriotic calls to war. Better educated people tend to see through politicians like Cruz and Trump.

 

The U.S. ranks 14th in education.

6 January 2015 Mark

According to Pearson, the United States has a “cognitive skills and educational attainment” score of 0.39, which makes the United States rank fourteenth out of forty countries ranked in that category.

Jan 6, 2015
education | Ranking America

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The fact that the US ranks so low in education and so high in ignorance about social statistics is no accident. It is in the interest of the Plutocracy to keep the voting public ignorant and badly educated. It allows right wing politicians, working exclusively for corporations and the ultra wealthy, to manipulate public perceptions more easily. It keeps more of the electorate voting for politicians who divert their attention from their own well being by promoting political passion about wedge issues of less importance.

 

For example: Very few educated people are swayed by the word salads of Sarah Palin.

 

According to the research firm IPSOS Mori, the United States ranks second out of fourteen countries in general ignorance about social statistics such as teen pregnancy, unemployment rates, and voting patterns. Italy is the most ignorant of the fourteen countries.

perils_slides_infographic-index-of-ignor

Chart from Ipsos
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3466/Perceptions-are-not-reality-10-things-the-world-

 

 

Likewise, Fox News viewers tend to be largely uninformed.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-uninformed-npr-listeners-not-poll-suggests/#4ff125dd6189

Fox News Viewers Uninformed, NPR Listeners Not, Poll Suggests

 

 

Ignorance is the ally of political deception. For the Plutocracy to dominate our political system, they need to keep the electorate ignorant. That's the reason for their efforts to privatize our school system, making a good education the province of the wealthy. Reduction of Plutocratic control over our political system will make it possible for politicians on the left to provide a better education, for all, in the US.

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I identify with ordinary Black people. I feel it's in the best interests of ordinary Whites to make common cause with ordinary Blacks because their best interests and ours are ultimately the same. The only differences that count, between people are the ones separating ordinary people from the very rich.... The interests of those two groups are at odds. Cosmetic differences have been a major tool to prevent people with common interests from making common cause. Racial differences have helped the plutocracy to divide and control the masses, duping ordinary Whites into feeling superior

 

Economically ordinary people need to unite according to what really counts instead of allowing themselves to be tribalized by religion, geography, ethnicity and race.

 

Blacks are really the same as whites. They have the same hates and loves. That's why you find white people racist against blacks but listening to gangster rap and driving low rider trucks!

 

Those double standards are also indicative of American-Exceptionalism, that you can always be the exception to some rule and do whatever you want without making sense.

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The fact that the US ranks so low in education and so high in ignorance about social statistics is no accident. It is in the interest of the Plutocracy to keep the voting public ignorant and badly educated. It allows right wing politicians, working exclusively for corporations and the ultra wealthy, to manipulate public perceptions more easily. It keeps more of the electorate voting for politicians who divert their attention from their own well being by promoting political passion about wedge issues of less importance.

 

For example: Very few educated people are swayed by the word salads of Sarah Palin.

 

Quote

According to the research firm IPSOS Mori, the United States ranks second out of fourteen countries in general ignorance about social statistics such as teen pregnancy, unemployment rates, and voting patterns. Italy is the most ignorant of the fourteen countries.

perils_slides_infographic-index-of-ignor

Chart from Ipsos

https://www.ipsos-mo...ings-the-world-

 

 

 

I think you're right about this. When people don't know anything, they can be led to believe anything.

 

As a weird side note, the company that did that poll, Ipsos Mori, has a weird sense of humor in choosing that name. Plug it into Google translate for Latin. It means "They Die".

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You should look into intersectionality. Women and people of colour face oppression. If you are disadvantaged in one way, that does not negate privilege in another. So, if you are a black man, you still benefit from male privilege but experience racism. If you're a white woman you benefit from white privilege but still experience sexism. A black woman experiences racism and sexism, often together, though she could be advantaged in some way (if she is straight, doesn't have a disability or mental illness, is rich, etc.

 

So black men can be sexist. White women can be racist.

 

But women cannot be sexist and black people cannot be racist. Because both are prejudice + power.

 

You have to be aware of that.

 

Many anti-racists and feminists don't realize that. There are terms "white feminists" (those who marginalize women of colour), "Ho-Teps" (anti-racism activists who are sexist), "brogressives", etc etc.

 

It's not a race card being played. We need to fight against all these kinds of marginalization and we can.

Well worth quoting!

 

Well said! It is the essence of progression for the betterment of all.Woman Lives Matter! You better believe that baby!

 

Peace!

 

Peace!

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Frankly, race or gender seems like a minor issue compared to Giant Corporations taking over the government. So much worse shit to worry about.

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The combined issue of plutocratic control of government.... the seizure of nearly all the nation's wealth by the fabulously rich already.... and the disappearing middle class:--- This is the major issue of our times.

 

But it's easy to downplay the importance of race and gender issues, especially when one is white and male. Social as well as economic issues need to be dealt with at the same time.

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The combined issue of plutocratic control of government.... the seizure of nearly all the nation's wealth by the fabulously rich already.... and the disappearing middle class:--- This is the major issue of our times.

 

But it's easy to downplay the importance of race and gender issues, especially when one is white and male. Social as well as economic issues need to be dealt with at the same time.

 

White males have plenty of problems in this society. If you are a white male from the south, and not to defend these bastards, but if you were to move up into the northeast and even try to fit in, fake a northern accent or not have one, etc, and I've met more than a few while living in the north who did this, there would always be this element of being subverted, of being the bad guy, almost like being from Canada and immigrating the USA, this sort of "outsider" feeling like being a spy and having to hide some fictional identity.

 

Furthermore, the black man I am voting for in 2016, Eugene Puryear, wrote an interesting article about how the middle class is actually a lie continually pushed by babyboomers who grew up in the 1950s/60s!

 

https://www.liberationnews.org/small-business-isnt-the-heart-of-the-american-economy/

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You can see exactly what I'm talking above in this pro-Canadian ad. The yankee is basically attacking the Canadian white man with all the same generalizations the yankee makes about southern whites, accusing them of not having running water or indoor plumbing. It's the same reality only from across a northern border. They have pent up aggression for Americans. There are grades of white males apparently.

 

 

Maybe it's because they couldnt annex Canada like they did the south and lost that war.

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Disgusting ad. Too bad I watched it. And you took it seriously, as if it demonstrated a pervasive social attitude.

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