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axmann

The Only Thing Worth Dying For.

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This would be true if not for the fact that you summarily dismiss one's god as something worth dying for. At least in the minds of true believers.

 

And so, you gave me your opinion. But your opinion has a lot of holes.

 

Dying is part of living ;no death =no life.

 

If one refuses to die for something he loves such as one's children ,then why have children?

 

You don't wish to die for your own survival??? ,then you won't survive.

 

Life belongs to those willing to fight, if not, then death[extinction] will come sooner rather than later.

 

You have to think it through ,Adam..

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You think you can "die for you own survival??? And I"M the one who has to think things through???

 

Remember Patton's famous quote, "The Objective of war is not to die for your country. It's to make the other poor fool die for HIS country." You can't really die FOR anything, as your death, in and of itself accomplishes nothing. Indeed, how can it? How can you protect your children when you're dead? Even the most heroic death is still just death, and death ends your ability to do anything beyond that. It may inspire others maybe, but how much more would they be inspired by your courageous survival.

 

Soldiers fight to survive, this is why they try to win rather than just fight. An essential weakness of the Japanese soldier is that he wanted to die, rather than living to fight another day.

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Life followed by death and rebirth is the key element to survival of any specie.

 

If soldiers only fight to survive then why fight at all?

 

I'm not suggesting death by suicide. .. But at some point a soldier sacrifices for a cause greater than himself ;and that can only be his faith in a supreme being.

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But at some point a soldier sacrifices for a cause greater than himself ;and that can only be his faith in a supreme being.

 

Really? Soldiers don't sacrifice themselves for love of country? Or family? Or hate of the enemy? Or glory?.... Such soldiers might not even believe in a Supreme Being.

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Axmann is all over the place.

 

I think he's trying to say that belief in a supreme being offers a pragmatic benefit to the believers... which is they are more resilient when it comes to conflict and war.

 

But then he started talking about ideology and the most powerful ideology, and "no death - no life".... :wacko: .... who really knows what he's talking about anymore

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If species in the natural world did not die would there progeny or future generations survive?

 

If humanity continued to procreate without merciful death pruning the sick and weak would mankind be what it is today? C'mon this is pretty basic stuff..

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Life followed by death and rebirth is the key element to survival of any specie.

 

True. Species would never have evolved without the death and rebirth of generations. Immortality would have been a dead end.

 

 

If soldiers only fight to survive then why fight at all?

 

Survive to fight another day. Also, from an evolutionary point of view, those who are able to prolong their lives long enough to procreate, are the ones to pass on their seed to the next generation.

 

 

I'm not suggesting death by suicide. .. But at some point a soldier sacrifices for a cause greater than himself ;and that can only be his faith in a supreme being.

 

For their buddies.... Love of country.... Glory.... Hate of the enemy.... Etc. But how is this related to the first two?

And why would anyone sacrifice themselves, unless instructed, because of faith in a Supreme Being? Maybe the Supreme being would prefer they go on living.

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If species in the natural world did not die would there progeny or future generations survive?

 

Of course they would. If species wouldn't be dying out, they'd survive. Wow that was easy

 

If humanity continued to procreate without merciful death pruning the sick and weak would mankind be what it is today? C'mon this is pretty basic stuff..

 

Humanity would not continue to procreate if death was not part of the equation, so there is no point to asking such a question.

 

But to answer the question anyway, humanity might be in a very very good place. Progress would take place at a quicker rate with immortal humans, than with mortal humans.

 

Either way, you haven't established anything. Again.

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You're off the board. Life doesn't exist in a vacuum. Life is dependent on environment. Poison the environment you poison whatever specie lives on it.

 

Remove death from the human equation ,you have decay and rot.

 

Keep in mind that not everyone will die for their god. But as Adam picked up on my point ,nothing can compensate for one's sacrifice.

 

All I'm saying is that god can .. If you first believe in god. If not ,then this doesn't apply to you. You still have nothing worth dying for.

 

If you hold nothing sacred , holy and pure then what do you regard as such? If you believe in nothing greater than yourself ,then all you have is very little to show for your life.

 

What can satisfy you if God cannot?

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I'm off the board?? Lol which one? There are at least three different topics you have rolled in here.

 

Sure, life depends on the environment.

 

Sure, not everyone will die for their god.

 

Sure, nothing compensates for making the ultimate sacrifice... the operative word being NOTHING. Nothing includes a belief in god, ie, your belief in god may lead you to make the ultimate sacrifice, but it doesn't compensate you. furthermore, all of this doesn't even address the factual question of there being a god or not, which is independent of your desire to believe in one.

 

If you hold nothing sacred , holy and pure then what do you regard as such? If you believe in nothing greater than yourself ,then all you have is very little to show for your life.

 

What can satisfy you if God cannot?

 

You have conflated two things here. 1) believing in something greater than oneself, and, 2) believing in God. They aren't the same thing. One can very well believe in things greater than oneself, without believing in God.

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name something greater than yourself? ...

 

What can satisfy you if god cannot?

 

You presume to know that god does not exist and if he did exist you presume he would not compensate for your sacrifice in battle.....Big of you..

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name something greater than yourself? ...

 

I can name more than one lol... how about family and kids whose interests you would put ahead of your own? How about a political ideal like freedom for which you'd go to jail? How about wealth and the pursuit of it to the point where you risk life and limb? How about....

 

I think I've made the point :D

 

 

What can satisfy you if god cannot?

 

Any number or other delusions.

 

You presume to know that god does not exist...

 

One cannot "presume to know". Either they "presume", or they "know". See?

 

I just have no reason to believe in an almighty omnipotent being lording over us. It's neither a presumption, nor conclusive knowledge.

 

You, on the other hand, should presume less about what I believe lol

 

 

... and if he did exist you presume he would not compensate for your sacrifice in battle.....Big of you..

 

That's right. If "he" did exist, "he" would want to see all of "his" creation succeed and thrive.

 

So which is it?

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Talk is cheap,Ashley!

 

And I concede you zero points. You are making too many mistakes based on a serious misunderstanding of human development in the world.

 

A good deal could be [i don't presume ] a lack of basic Christian teachings.

 

With god there's no such thing as time or space. So his creation can and has succeeded beyond the time and space dimension.

 

If god is a delusion to you ,I ask again what do you believe in? What do you have faith in.. I'm not asking you what you think you love. People love their cats or lesbian lovers. .. That's not love.

 

 

God is Love. If you demean this idea you demean his creation. you demean yourself.. You remain a selfish ,childish ,greedy , looking for love in all the wrong places type person..

 

What can possibly satisfy you if god cannot?.. What can bring peace to your troubled mind? .. God's creation is his best defense. Humanity is really the only valid proof that god exists.

 

Take away the Christian faith from humanity and all mankind would slowly revert back to a form of bestial vegetation. All that is of beauty and love and purity and sacredness would incrementally disappear from off the face of the earth.

 

Eventually all living things would disappear and the earth would once again orbit the sun mindlessly and without purpose. Man is gods creation because only mankind can give meaning to life . think about it ..

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Talk is cheap,Ashley!

 

We've been talking this entire thread. You've been expressing your views in this thread. But NOW talk is cheap because I've pinned you down on a few things. Of course.

 

Ok, if not talk, what other means do you propose we continue in? ESP? Mortal combat??? Oh wait, you're continuing to "talk" lol...

 

And I concede you zero points. You are making too many mistakes based on a serious misunderstanding of human development in the world.

 

I'm not expecting you to concede anything. You're long gone. This is for third party observers to mull over and evaluate. Note that I answer your questions, but you dont answer mine. You just dismiss them :)

 

A good deal could be [i don't presume ] a lack of basic Christian teachings.

 

... nope. I grew up Christian, I understand what's what, which is why you wont be pulling anything over me lol

 

God is Love. If you demean this idea you demean his creation. you demean yourself.. You remain a selfish ,childish ,greedy , looking for love in all the wrong places type person..

 

Look according to your definition of God.... an unknowable omnipotent being.... "God" is whatever you declare "it" to be. We're now at the stage where you're claiming God is Love: no god, no love.

 

It's all in your head, axmann. It's all in your head.

 

 

What can possibly satisfy you if god cannot?.. What can bring peace to your troubled mind?

 

Good questions. You believe that a non believer must be conflicted in some deeper way? Well, I'm quite happy. I really do not have a troubled mind. :)

 

You???

 

Take away the Christian faith from humanity and all mankind would slowly revert back to a form of bestial vegetation.

 

I wouldn't say that. A number of non Christian societies and civilizations did quite well given their levels of knowledge and understanding of the world. Christian europe in the middle ages was one of the more 'bestial' places to be, if you didn't already know.

 

But among all of the religions we have, I would think that the moral code of Christianity possesses the greatest civilizing features. Of course, there's no way I can prove it, so it's just my take.

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The talk is cheap was directed at your claims ,not in your verbiage . self evident.

 

Have you taken philosophy/ religion classes ,ever?

 

You know that a professor giving students a B + is the equivalent of a C- in other fields of study.

 

But any way.. Let me try again.. what do you personally regard as sacred and holy?

 

You call god a delusion..

 

They say there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole. sooner or later you will find yourself in something along those lines and you will need god to get you out .

 

Are you going to ask Christ to help you?

 

Is he going to ask you why you called him a delusion? that's just my take..

 

So far I have to grade you a B++. keep trying..

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The talk is cheap was directed at your claims ,not in your verbiage .

 

And? Weren't you also making claims throughout the thread?

 

Why do you religious people exempt yourselves from the very same criticisms you have of others? <<< another question I don't foresee you answering lol

 

 

Have you taken philosophy/ religion classes ,ever?

You know that a professor giving students a B + is the equivalent of a C- in other fields of study.

 

I've taken some philosophy. Professors have had issues with me as well. Grades? What's this got to do with anything??? Grades are certainly not The Only Thing Worth Dying For, let me tell you.

 

 

But any way.. Let me try again.. what do you personally regard as sacred and holy?

 

Sacred and holy are terms that exist in your religious lexicon. For me things vary in importance. Somethings that are very important to me would be keeping fit and healthy and caring about the people close to me. Less important would be humanizing these wastelands in liberal forum lol

 

 

You call god a delusion..

They say there's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole. sooner or later you will find yourself in something along those lines and you will need god to get you out .

 

No, I called belief in a supreme omnipotent sky daddy that lords over us delusional, get it right. If I had good reason to believe such a being actually exists, I would believe in it. Simple. See I'm not the closed minded one here.

 

Athiest foxhole... yes it's a saying... thought up by some clever religious type who else.

 

 

So far I have to grade you a B++. keep trying..

 

I'm used to As, but I see you're sulking. And you haven't even answered any of my questions yet imagine that lol

 

Keep trying what? Keep trying to get better grades from you? Okay this is getting weird now :huh:

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O.K. I admit , I laughed at your cheap talk..

 

the skygod nomenclature as you put it shows a typical disrespect for the beliefs billions have.

And that's not cool.

 

But you see , you will find yourself on death's door ,then what?

 

You lived a shallow life and you really have nothing more to hope for.. What a pity!

 

Answer this: go back as far as you care ,50-60 thous. years . Why did religion of some sort develop?

 

Of all the alternative beliefs or lifestyles mankind had to form or choose from ,why did he choose a belief in a power greater than himself ?

 

All today stand on the shoulders of those who came before. The reason why you exist is due to the decisions made in past millennia.

 

That's why you can say what you want and why you weren't cannibalized.

 

 

 

..

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We have been manipulated into every war ever fought! Greed and power are strong taskmasters and the ones at the top of this want it all.

 

Wars are all abt adding billions to trillionaire coffers generating power.

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The soldier fights for country but what is he willing to die for?

 

No one on the battlefield 'willingly fights and dies " for his nation, or for a political system no less for an economic ideology.

 

The reason is clear; if one is willing to examine the compelling reasons behind mortal combat.

 

Keep in mind that I stated" Willingly".

 

And without this willingness to sacrifice and die , all combat is reduced to being every man for himself.

 

And this further means that no nation can achieve victory or survive.

 

The only substantial reason why a soldier sacrifices his life is for the god he believes in and worships.

 

It's only his god that can reward him. No nation can reward a fallen soldier ,nor can his family ;given that he will not enjoy the fruits of his efforts and valor. He will not survive to see victory or his nation prosper but he does believe that his reward will be eternal given to him by the Almighty who rewards everyone accordingly. And this in the presence of his ancestors who with the Almighty witness the bravery of their progeny. They ,in god's presence expect him to do no less than they have done . And the soldier, unwilling to shame his forbears gives his life for the very god in whose presence they stand.

 

An atheist fights only to survive another day ;but for him ,there's nothing worth dying for ,since this life is all there is for him.

 

That's why atheists are terrible soldiers . That's why we have chaplains ..

Thank you for the interesting post. Many people would be willing to die to avoid painfull suffering.

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the skygod nomenclature as you put it shows a typical disrespect for the beliefs billions have. And that's not cool.

 

sky daddy you mean.

 

But you see , you will find yourself on death's door ,then what?

 

Am I supposed to be afraid at that point?

 

You lived a shallow life and you really have nothing more to hope for.. What a pity!

 

Lol, if you say so cupcake

 

Answer this: go back as far as you care ,50-60 thous. years . Why did religion of some sort develop?

 

Of all the alternative beliefs or lifestyles mankind had to form or choose from ,why did he choose a belief in a power greater than himself ?

 

All today stand on the shoulders of those who came before. The reason why you exist is due to the decisions made in past millennia.

 

That's why you can say what you want and why you weren't cannibalized.

 

Religions develop because people are generally ignorant, and as such, they are petrified. Like you. As the ignorance gets scaled back, so does the belief in religion. Simple.

 

Religion saved the human race from cannabilism? Is this your newest claim now, or are you just throwing it into the mix on the sly?

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but what has atheism contributed? .. homos?

 

No.

 

Religion created humanity. that's what!

 

I didn't ask you what religion has created. I asked if you were claiming religion saved humanity from cannibalism.

 

What a dodgy religious fellow you are.

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I'm claiming that religion saved mankind from cannibalism [even while it still exists within the African community] and all other ISMS as well.

 

so now what? you haven't said anything in quite a while..

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