The Only Thing Worth Dying For.

[axmann]

The soldier fights for country but what is he willing to die for?

 

No one on the battlefield 'willingly fights and dies " for his nation, or for a political system no less for an economic ideology.

 

The reason is clear; if one is willing to examine the compelling reasons behind mortal combat.

 

Keep in mind that I stated" Willingly".

 

And without this willingness to sacrifice and die , all combat is reduced to being every man for himself.

 

And this further means that no nation can achieve victory or survive.

 

The only substantial reason why a soldier sacrifices his life is for the god he believes in and worships.

 

It's only his god that can reward him. No nation can reward a fallen soldier ,nor can his family ;given that he will not enjoy the fruits of his efforts and valor. He will not survive to see victory or his nation prosper but he does believe that his reward will be eternal given to him by the Almighty who rewards everyone accordingly. And this in the presence of his ancestors who with the Almighty witness the bravery of their progeny. They ,in god's presence expect him to do no less than they have done . And the soldier, unwilling to shame his forbears gives his life for the very god in whose presence they stand.

 

An atheist fights only to survive another day ;but for him ,there's nothing worth dying for ,since this life is all there is for him.

 

That's why atheists are terrible soldiers . That's why we have chaplains ..

[AshleyXI]

Hi Axmann, in a military battle between religious zealots and atheists, all things being equal, who do you suppose would win?

 

You're saying that the religious team would be willing to die for their cause, and so... they would win?

[AbeLincoln]

In battle soldiers fight for their own lives and the lives of the guy next to them. Everything else is bs. Countless interviews with soldiers from every war state this unoquivecally.

 

Why is it that people that profess to believe in a 'god' are constantly trying to prove their 'gods' worth to everyone else? Sounds like someone isn't sure.

[axmann]

Hi Axmann, in a military battle between religious zealots and atheists, all things being equal, who do you suppose would win?

 

You're saying that the religious team would be willing to die for their cause, and so... they would win?

[/quote. That's about it. In any form of organized violence ,war or revolution it must arise out of a sense of religious conviction otherwise it will be wavering and unsure in its goals and doomed to fail.]

[axmann]

Atheists cannot fight by definition for anything that risks their physical survival .simply telling a bunch of GIs to kill or be killed is the law of the jungle. Blacks or criminals in the ghetto fight by the same code.

[AbeLincoln]

You are an expert on A-theists?

 

Let me guess, you are a theist.

[axmann]

All my life I've been a Christian, a true believer. This religion for me is what creates humanity. The essential differnce between Christians and others is what you hold sacred. The Hindu belief that cows and elephants and rats are sacred has never been a credible sacred belief.

[bludog]

All my life I've been a Christian, a true believer. This religion for me is what creates humanity. The essential differnce between Christians and others is what you hold sacred. The Hindu belief that cows and elephants and rats are sacred has never been a credible sacred belief.

Pick a religion. Each religion claims to be the true religion while attempting to discredit the beliefs of other religions..... While appearing absurd to all others with contrary religious beliefs.

[AbeLincoln]

"Pick a religion. Each religion claims to be the true religion while attempting to discredit the beliefs of other religions..... While appearing absurd to all others with contrary religious beliefs."

 

 

And that's the rub, every person is absolutely sure their religion is the correct religion. Their god is the 'real ' god.

 

There have been somewhere between 4000 and 40,000 religions over man's history. Each one claiming ownership of reality and truth. If you take the lower number, 4000, and take any of those religions, say christianity, then christians are saying the other 3,999 religions are false and their god doesn't exist.

 

By the way, athiest simply believe in one less god than christians. Or any other religion.

 

All the things in various current religions are taken from stories that were around thousands of years before either christianity, islam, or judiasm like the virgin birth. Current religions in fact mimic what previous religious dogma espoused. There is nothing new about them.

[bludog]

All the things in various current religions are taken from stories that were around thousands of years before either christianity, islam, or judiasm like the virgin birth. Current religions in fact mimic what previous religious dogma espoused. There is nothing new about them.

 

Nomadic hunter-gatherer clans at the dawn of humanity, practiced Animism; In which every animal, rock tree and blade of grass was possessed of a spirit. As was earth, mountain and sky.

 

Eventually, with the advent of herding, animal husbandry and agriculture larger numbers people could settle in one place. As cities arose, various versions of Pantheism came to be; In which a group of gods ruled humanity and all realms; And they usually reigned from someplace on-high. Pantheism retained elements of Animism with its religious reverence for natural objects like mountains, venerable trees, rivers, etc. Pantheism also used inanimate idols as objects of worship.

 

As time passed Monotheism came about in which there was supposed to be only one God. Monotheism retained elements of Pantheism with it's large numbers of angels, saints, prophets and the like. And it retained elements of Animism by its religious reverence for relics, arcs, grails, shrouds and so forth.

 

Each new form of religion retains elements of those that went before.

[axmann]

In a certain sense religion has evolved . over the millennia .. But so what...

 

At one time human flesh was a staple and still is in many parts of Africa and in certain American ghetto districts but does that make it right ?

 

At one time we had child sacrifices to the gods of ancient Babylon or human hearts ripped out of the chests of the Aztec faith while the victims were still alive.

 

In India you see hindus drinking cow urine and eating cow dung.. Anything sacred there?

 

Religion [the true religion ] is what is sacred ,pure ,holy and compassionate. And its only the Christian faith that meets or exceeds all audience expectations.

[bludog]

 

 

At one time human flesh was a staple in certain American ghetto districts but does that make it right ?

 

Where is the evidence?

 

 

At one time we had child sacrifices to the gods of ancient Babylon or human hearts ripped out of the chests of the Aztec faith while the victims were still alive.

 

And the Old Testament tells us the Hebrews practiced human sacrifice, especially of first born sons. It's an indelible part of the Christian religion's past.

 

 

In India you see hindus drinking cow urine and eating cow dung.. Anything sacred there?

 

These practices are oddities in India, limited to a very small number of Hindu sects. They are the equivalent of Christian aberrations like the Pentacostal venomous snake handlers in parts of southern US.

 

 

Religion [the true religion ] is what is sacred ,pure ,holy and compassionate. And its only the Christian faith that meets or exceeds all audience expectations.

 

Fine, if it works for you. I like he compassionate part.

[AshleyXI]

That's about it. In any form of organized violence ,war or revolution it must arise out of a sense of religious conviction otherwise it will be wavering and unsure in its goals and doomed to fail.

 

It's an interesting idea. But when you say war or revolution must arise out of a sense of religious conviction, you mean monotheistic religious conviction that promises an after life, right?

[axmann]

The promise of an afterlife may well be a part of the conviction to fight and win.

 

In the case of revolution ,the masses must comport themselves in the fashion of a Holy Order.

 

If not, then you will have wavering ,instability and lack of belief of the cause you will be fighting for.

 

The organization itself must be ordered in the form of a Holy Order. ... The Brits still fight for god ,Country and King. At least they used to..

 

As far as monotheistic religions ; the pagans of antiquity did not fight for their gods. The gods often fought against them and ,even in battle.

[AshleyXI]

That's about it. In any form of organized violence ,war or revolution it must arise out of a sense of religious conviction otherwise it will be wavering and unsure in its goals and doomed to fail.]

 

Ok... does it matter what kind of religious beliefs/convictions.... like for instance what if a Buddhist army met a Shi'ite army?

[axmann]

Every ideology will sooner or later be replaced with a stronger ideology... Nature places mankind on a world stage of struggle ; and grants the wreath of victory to the strongest... I'm serious.

[AshleyXI]

Nature places mankind on a world stage of struggle...

 

That is true. But what happens next is just as interesting: elements within mankind look at Nature, then look and Mankind... and construct a social contract to escape the state of barbarism... "struggle" as you mention.

 

You began by saying religion fosters the best soldiers, at least the most self-sacrificing ones, but now we're talking the strongest ideology. You have to tie up some lose ends, me thinks.

[axmann]

Religion is ideology. ...

 

You can't separate religion from politics anymore than you can separate it from mankind's struggle for survival.

 

Christianity is a struggle in this world, designed to enhance survival in the here and now ;and its promise of a future in the world to come is its compelling feature.

 

take advantage of it!

[AshleyXI]

At one time human flesh was a staple in certain American ghetto districts but does that make it right ?

Where is the evidence?

 

At one time we had child sacrifices to the gods of ancient Babylon or human hearts ripped out of the chests of the Aztec faith while the victims were still alive.

And the Old Testament tells us the Hebrews practiced human sacrifice, especially of first born sons. It's an indelible part of the Christian religion's past.

 

In India you see hindus drinking cow urine and eating cow dung.. Anything sacred there?

These practices are oddities in India, limited to a very small number of Hindu sects. They are the equivalent of Christian aberrations like the Pentacostal venomous snake handlers in parts of southern US.

 

Religion [the true religion ] is what is sacred ,pure ,holy and compassionate. And its only the Christian faith that meets or exceeds all audience expectations.

Fine, if it works for you. I like he compassionate part.

 

Bludog 1 - Axxman 0 ........... thus far anyway

 

 

Religion is ideology. ...

 

Properly understood, religion is a subset of a bigger term ideology. They aren't the same thing.

 

 

You can't separate religion from politics anymore than you can separate it from mankind's struggle for survival.

 

... sure why not... this is just another claim, there are many like these.

 

 

Christianity is a struggle in this world, designed to enhance survival in the here and now ;and its promise of a future in the world to come is its compelling feature. take advantage of it!

 

Ahh, so you justify your belief in virtues of Christianity on pragmatic grounds.... "Christianity is best equipped for survival in the here/now, plus offers an afterlife! What's not to like!"

 

You haven't answered my question about a buddhist army meeting a shia army, and who the winner would be.

[axmann]

Buddhist vs. Shia ?? too silly to answer , irrelevant to anything.

[AshleyXI]

At face value it might sound silly.

 

The question is seeking to uncover if you acknowledge that there are fully viable religions or belief systems that do not promise you paradise after you die for its cause.

 

Such religions render your argument a Fail.

[axmann]

Do you ever read what you write?

 

you mention Shia ????.. rethink your response.

 

What's fully viable about Buddhism??? rethink it !

[AshleyXI]

I typically think what I write, sometimes I read it. You?

 

I juxtaposed team shia and team buddhist, yes whats the problem

 

Yes viable. Just like your particular religion is viable.

 

 

If you think you've made some sagely point, you havent, and I'm not into mind reading. Put it in words please and thanks.

[axmann]

Beliefs ,religions, ideologies are subject to evolutionary principles just as with all natural life. The stronger usually wins..

[Adam Kadmon]

There is never a reason for dying.

 

Freedom, honor, love, god, country, good and evil, even family, (for what use is a dead person to his family,) everything and anything, all things are less than dross when compared with life itself, for nothing whatsoever is of any use to the dead.

 

This is the central defect and great mystery of the human condition.. We're all going to die, but there is never any reason for it, and never has been.