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Oswald

Unions suck! and so does Minimum Wage laws.

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So did hitler and communists.

Unions are dead.

Unions are only 8% of the economy.

Reagan killed off the unions saying the economy will be better. But its not.

Republicans have won the war againist the unions.

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Hahahahahahaha my God you are stupid hahahahahahahaha

U IDIOT CONS WISH.

 

More Americans are out of work because cheney'sBUSHco crashed the economy as the Baby Boom generation began to reach retirement age. FACT!

It was all of the IDIOT CON HATE for unions & "RIGHT-TO-WORK" LAWS that weakened them so that they could no longer hold back the tide of illegal immigrants.

END THE FAILED IDIOT CON DRUG WAR THAT HAS BEEN BANKRUPTING OUR STATES, OUR NATION & OUR PEOPLE WITH AN OUT-OF-CONTROL PRISON CULTURE FOR OVER A HALF CENTURY !

Reverse the Debt Clock. End ALL WARS (INCLUDING the Drug War) & Foreign Military Aid, & return to more tax brackets for the VERY rich.

In the interest of fairness, the MULTIMILLIONAIRES & BILLIONAIRES who make their money on the rise of stock prices should not be allowed to pay a smaller percentage than the middle class who work hard for their money.

Now is the time to update our Post Roads for this new millennium.

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https://twitter.com/...th/with_replies

FIXEDnewsCORP --- UNfair, UNbalanced & AFRAID to be otherwise.

http://thedailyshow....14---tom-cruise

http://thedailyshow....14---anita-hill

http://www.thedailys...ional-autocrats

http://www.thedailys...istraction-loop

roger ailes, koch brothers & roberts' court --- talk about stacking the deck against the 99% of US* Americans.

Plug in $10 million: http://qz.com/74271/...tes-since-1913/

Dave Peiser For Congress! DUMP ISSA BEFORE HE WASTES EVEN MORE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX $ ON NON-SCANDALS!

http://www.peiserforcongress.com/

http://<span style="...real-tax-reform

PeaceFlagEdit2011-4-6_bigger.JPG

2014: VOTE FOR *WE THE PEOPLE IN THE "PEOPLE'S HOUSE!" USA!

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Wages for working people have gone up very little since 1980 certainly not close to the productivity gains of their labor. The lions share has gone to the wealthy.

 

That is great little fairy tale, Mother Goose. If that is really true, then why aren't more and more and more and more and more businesses coming along to get in on action to hire the mispriced workers to get filthy rich themselves? Why are other people letting the existing businesses keep all the supposedly massive profits for themselves? What, has the country run out of "greedy" people? Lol...

 

I have only asked this simple question about 100 times to you idiots that repeat the silly little ignorant theory above, and for some strange reason none of you idiot libs are ever able to give rational answer.

That is great little fairy tale, Mother Goose. If that is really true, then why aren't more and more and more and more and more businesses coming along to get in on action to hire the mispriced workers to get filthy rich themselves? Why are other people letting the existing businesses keep all the supposedly massive profits for themselves? What, has the country run out of "greedy" people? Lol...

 

I have only asked this simple question about 100 times to you idiots that repeat the silly little ignorant theory above, and for some strange reason none of you idiot libs are ever able to give rational answer. - See more at: http://Cannon&#39;s fake ass copy cat site/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6615&u=0&start=60#sthash.zzDYyzxO.dpuf

 

Wages for working people have gone up very little since 1980 certainly not close to the productivity gains of their labor. The lions share has gone to the wealthy. As far as our "high" corporate tax rate, about half u.s. corporations pay no taxes and the rest of them have hundreds of accountants and lawyers for all the loopholes. Almost nobody pay the full tax...we're like a banana republic that way.

 

 

As far as our "high" corporate tax rate, about half u.s. corporations pay no taxes and the rest of them have hundreds of accountants and lawyers for all the loopholes. Almost nobody pay the full tax...we're like a banana republic that way.

No, all US corporations pay no corporate taxes, nimrod. That is because corporations are just legal entities and thus cannot pay taxes. Though some corporations do pass taxes from consumers to the government. Do you want more of that?

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Why did Ford pay his workers well? Was it because he was a good guy or the free market?

NO, he was a greedy ass hole who wanted his workers to be able to afford to buy his cars.

THAT is the reason why there should be high wages, so workers can demand durable goods.

 

 

Lol... Even if Ford's workers plowed every single extra cent of pay back into buying Ford cars (and neglecting taxes), Ford would only break even at best on cash flow alone. But he would also be simultaneously giving the employees cars in the exchange. So how the hell could some "greedy" employer make more profit by showering his employees with undeserved charity?

 

Hell, if your silly little ignorant theory really works, why would you stop at just giving extra money to employees only? Why don't you start a store where you hand out big bags of cash to every customer that walks in the door? I guarantee that the popularity of your store would go through the roof!!!

 

Dumbass.

 

 

Without unions and without minimum wages, you will work 7 days a week, no holidays, no pension,

no health insurance, and your children will work in factories as in asia instead of being in school.

 

Oh really? If all that bullshit was true, then can you explain why on earth any non-union employee in the US makes more than minimum wage today? Why the hell are these supposedly "greedy" employers paying accountants, computer programmers, engineers, managers, etc.. one single penny more than they have to pay them by law?

 

This is another one of those questions I have asked over 100 times with no rational answer from you idiot libs yet. Seems kind of strange, doesn't it?

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Unions are why we have/HAD a middle class. IDIOTS like U want to return America to a time when MOST AMERICANS WERE DIRT POOR!

This is so patently absurd on its face. If that statement were grounded in ANY kind of truth, ONLY union members would ever make above minimum wage. I have never been in a union. I will never be in a union. And yet my income last year was exactly 8 times what it was the year after I got out of the Army. How do you explain that in the absence of union representation? It boggles the mind, does it not? And no, I am not a CEO, or other C level company officer.

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Some Republicans in Washington want to end unemployment insurance and the minimum wage, which would force workers to accept jobs paying below what the minimum wage is now.

 

Now there is something basic. If wages of people go down, they can't afford to purchase as many of the goods and services that corporations produce, and which stores sell. That is made even worse by negative economies of scale. That means that the sales of the corporations and stores will go down, so the lower wages really don't do them any good, and the nation becomes a poor nation.

 

On the other hand, if everyone's wages increase, they buy more of what the corporations produce and the stores sell. That increases sales, which brings in more money for corporations and stores. This is further helped by the positive economies of scale which result from more sales.

 

Sales are absolutely essential for an economy to do well. Investing in new production facilities, for example, doesn't do any good if the added production can't be sold.

 

Therefore, the way for a nation to grow is to increase wages of everyone. The extra wages corporations and stores pay will be returned to them in more sales.

 

There is a wrinkle. If wages are raised faster than production can be increased, that causes inflation, which damages the cycle. If wages are raised too slowly, the economy doesn't grow as much as it could. Thus, wages must be raised periodically by just the right amount, so that production can keep up with the wage increases.

 

Once increased production gets going, the increased production can be raised fairly fast, so this balance will tend to change over time.

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Some Republicans in Washington want to end unemployment insurance and the minimum wage, which would force workers to accept jobs paying below what the minimum wage is now.

That is only true if they can only produce value to an employer below what the minimum wage is now.

 

Now there is something basic.

Yes, it is very basic. So why the hell can't you idiot libs comprehend it?

 

 

If wages of people go down, they can't afford to purchase as many of the goods and services that corporations produce, and which stores sell. That is made even worse by negative economies of scale. That means that the sales of the corporations and stores will go down, so the lower wages really don't do them any good, and the nation becomes a poor nation.

 

On the other hand, if everyone's wages increase, they buy more of what the corporations produce and the stores sell. That increases sales, which brings in more money for corporations and stores. This is further helped by the positive economies of scale which result from more sales.

 

Sales are absolutely essential for an economy to do well. Investing in new production facilities, for example, doesn't do any good if the added production can't be sold.

 

Therefore, the way for a nation to grow is to increase wages of everyone. The extra wages corporations and stores pay will be returned to them in more sales.

 

There is a wrinkle. If wages are raised faster than production can be increased, that causes inflation, which damages the cycle. If wages are raised too slowly, the economy doesn't grow as much as it could. Thus, wages must be raised periodically by just the right amount, so that production can keep up with the wage increases.

 

Once increased production gets going, the increased production can be raised fairly fast, so this balance will tend to change over time.

 

Since just passing a moronic minimum wage law does not magically conjure extra wealth out of thin air, where exactly do you think all this money for extra sales is going to come from in the long term?

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Some Republicans in Washington want to end unemployment insurance and the minimum wage, which would force workers to accept jobs paying below what the minimum wage is now.

Yes. Yes it would. But it would be for jobs that are so incredibly simple that they are either done by machine now or not at all. Maybe we could bring back gas station attendants. Maybe we could bring back more unpaid interns who earn valuable job experience in exchange for not being paid. Maybe we would see more bathroom attendants.

 

What you fail to understand is that minimum wage kills jobs, like the ones I have listed above. You also fail to understand that companies don't pay wages in the same way they don't pay taxes: the consumer pays them both. So when wages or taxes on a corporation increase, there is a corresponding price increase. When that happens, the very people you purport to help are in the exact same position they are now. How did you help them? Well, at least you passed a law that makes you feel good, even if it has no effect.

 

Riddle me this: If minimum wage laws lift people out of poverty and don't have the effect I described above, whey shouldn't we make the minimum wage $100/hour? I'll tell you why. Because then people flipping burgers would make the same as those pushing for minimum wage laws, and we can't have that, can we?

 

Now there is something basic. If wages of people go down, they can't afford to purchase as many of the goods and services that corporations produce, and which stores sell. That is made even worse by negative economies of scale. That means that the sales of the corporations and stores will go down, so the lower wages really don't do them any good, and the nation becomes a poor nation.

If prices go up, how is the outcome different than if wages go down? And who says wages will go down? Yes, absent a minimum wage law some people would get paid less than $7.25/hour (or whatever it is now) but plenty of people would also still make more. And more people would be employed. You would be able to hire people with absolutely zero skill and pay them a very low wage while they serve as an apprentice and learn a craft. Then when they begin to bring real value to the company, you can increase their pay. Yes, this would happen because companies don't like to be training grounds for other companies. I have seen it in action first hand.

 

On the other hand, if everyone's wages increase, they buy more of what the corporations produce and the stores sell. That increases sales, which brings in more money for corporations and stores. This is further helped by the positive economies of scale which result from more sales.

Exactly. Because the cost of doing business plays absolutely no part in setting the price of a product. Even more, wages aren't even factored in to the cost of doing business. So in Unicorns-pooping-rainbows-of-Skittles Land, this is what we call a win-win.

 

More gibberish that shows I have never run a business or talked to anyone that has.

Still wrong.

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On the question of where the money comes from if sales rise due to increased wages:

 

Much of the money comes from economies of scale. Probably, you don't want to believe me, but economies of scale is something very important in economics, so you could easily google references to study. If you do this yourself, then it won't matter if you don't believe me, because I didn't have anything to do with the references and with selecting the references for you. You did the research yourself. Try to find references in economics that are as professional as possible.

 

I'm assuming you won't believe me, but if I say a few things, then it will be easier for you to understand the references in economics that you google.

 

Economics of scale occur because businesses have fixed costs. For example, if they are renting a building, they have to pay the same rent whether they sell only a few items or many items. That means that if they sell many items, it costs them less to produce each item because the cost of rent is spread among more items produced. Similarly, if they are paying on a business loan, they have to make the same payments whether they are producing few or many copies of their product. The same goes for the machines they had to purchase. If the machines are used to produce fewer products, they still have to pay the same amount for the machines. This also partly applies to things like the costs of bookkeeping. Computers and bookkeepers can handle additional items, or workers, with very little additional time.

 

Therefore, the economies of scale make products less expensive per item to produce as sales rise. If part of the savings from the economies of scale are put into increased wages, then that is where the money is coming from. It is similar to the money having come out of thin air, but it is really economies of scale.

 

If you want to get into something more complicated, then the velocity of money ties in. So if you wish, you can also google velocity of money.

 

On the question of why wages would go down:

 

I think I will start with something the Wall Street Journal has reported. With increasing automation, there aren't and won't be enough jobs to employ everyone in the world. In these modern times, the wage competition is international. Therefore, when wages of workers outside the United State are lower than American wages, American workers will be under pressure to accept jobs at the same low wages as the lowest paid workers in foreign nations. Already, it has happened above the minimum wage level. India's computer programming jobs pay about a quarter of what corporations have been paying American computer programmers, so a very large number of American computer programming jobs have been exported to India.

 

There is quite a bit more to say, but this message is becoming too long, so I will have to say it at other times and perhaps other places on the message board.

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So did hitler and communists.

Unions are dead.

Unions are only 8% of the economy.

Reagan killed off the unions saying the economy will be better. But its not.

Republicans have won the war againist the unions.

The people have won the war against the criminal unions. The people obviously don't want them. Every time a union state is changed over to a right to work state the union loses huge numbers of members. The people do not want unions. And they sure don't want to be forced to join one.

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wow Oswald your an ass

probably don't tip you waiters

 

 

I'm actually a 20%+ tipper.

 

If you opened your eyes and got away from right vs left arguments you could really see what's going on in the world. I was in your mind set back around 2007. I then did my own research and I've become enlightened with what I've learned. We all need to find common ground and come together. I'm probably more left than you on many issues, but I'm more right of some on the extreme right.

The time is coming with the economic situation in the world that right vs left will be gone and we'll just all be Americans.

 

THE ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THE USA/WORLD WAS NOT CAUSED BY BUSH OR OBAMA.

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Actually, it hasn't been the people, although the propaganda has discouraged them from protecting unions.

 

For some decades, business owners have had seminars and consultants on how to destroy the unions in their businesses or how to keep a union from forming. Business owners have been fighting a quiet war against unions, with experts noting the tactics which work and passing those on to the business owners.

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On the question of where the money comes from if sales rise due to increased wages:

 

Much of the money comes from economies of scale. [...]

So what you're saying is that because of the economies of scale, it doesn't matter what it costs to make a product, they can pay workers anything they want and the price of a product will never increase? Then I ask again, why not make the minimum wage $100/hour?

 

And your explanation ignores a simple fact: responsibilities to shareholders. Yes, modest wage increases can be accommodated, but there is still a responsibility to turn a profit. So when wages are increased artificially across the board, that has an impact for which the business must account. And they account for them through increases in price. They are not going to give up considerable profit just to pay their employees more. That's not how business works.

 

And business isn't there to create or maintain jobs either. Business is there to provide the consumer with a product. Jobs are a byproduct of business, not the other way around. And since this is true, when wages go beyond the point where a company is losing money by employing someone, what do you think is going to give? The job or the business? Go on, you know this.

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The free market should determine wages. If people will do a job $5 an hour is that bad. If nobody takes the job for $5 and hour then the employer would need to up the hourly rate. Maybe some of the current "minimum" wage jobs now could pay more if the other less skilled "minimum' wage jobs got paid less.

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well os if you don't like minimum wage how do you feel about child labor laws?

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LagerHead:::So what you're saying is that because of the economies of scale, it doesn't matter what it costs to make a product, they can pay workers anything they want and the price of a product will never increase? Then I ask again, why not make the minimum wage $100/hour?

 

Jim:::I'm not saying something that simple. I'm saying that there is wiggle room because economies of scale reduce SOME of the costs. So, for that matter, does automation. The wiggle room allows an increase in wages to produce economic growth, so there is a larger pie for everyone to share. But. IT'S NOT SIMPLE. I also noted that wages need to be raised at an optimal rate to obtain the best effects. Raising wages too quickly or too slowly reduces economic growth.

Lagerhead:::And your explanation ignores a simple fact: responsibilities to shareholders. Yes, modest wage increases can be accommodated, but there is still a responsibility to turn a profit. So when wages are increased artificially across the board, that has an impact for which the business must account. And they account for them through increases in price. They are not going to give up considerable profit just to pay their employees more. That's not how business works.

 

Jim::: I might note that ordinary shareholders are being shafted by the wealthy shareholders, who are able through various manipulations to take more money our of the company than small shareholders. Of course, if sales of the company grow, profits increase also, even though the large shareholders get more of that profit for themselves. Methods include being a highly paid member of the Board of Directors, which requires very little work and having contracts with the company which pay above market price for goods and/or services provided by another company the wealthy sharehholder owns.

 

Then, an across the board cost which is the same for all companies doesn't work the way you think it does. The across the board is a level playing field move. To see this, notice that costs are only part of what affects profits. Another thing that affects profits is how much a company charges for a product, and that is affected by competition among companies. Competition from other companies means that product sales cost can't be too low or two high, unless someone is engaged in something like a price war. If all the companies set their prices too low, shareholders will complain. If all companies set a price too high, then one of the companies is likely to set a somewhat lower price for products which produces a lower profit but one shareholders will live with, and if the other companies don't lower the price of their products too, the company with the lower price will gain market share at their expense. Now when there is a small imposed cost equal for all companies, they still will set prices to have this moderate profit for all the companies, just as before. So the small imposed equal cost doesn't affect profits.

 

Lagerhead:::And business isn't there to create or maintain jobs either. Business is there to provide the consumer with a product. Jobs are a byproduct of business, not the other way around. And since this is true, when wages go beyond the point where a company is losing money by employing someone, what do you think is going to give? The job or the business? Go on, you know this.

 

Jim:::That is a philosophical matter. You happen to believe in a philosophy which says that businesses are there only to provide products, but that is an arbitrary philosophical position. My philosophical position is that businesses are there to support everyone, and we have just decided on an American type system because we like it, it has worked sort of well, and we don't know of a possible better system. In another perspective, the general public, has long ago decided that it is OK for people to have an opportunity to become wealthy, as long as they support everyone else in the process. It is the majority of the general public which is supposed to have the power to decide such things.

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well os if you don't like minimum wage how do you feel about child labor laws?

Do I want children working in sweat shops, NO.

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do you like 40 hour week? holidays off ? unions got that fore us . how about maternity leave? working on that one now .

what is it about unions that upset you ?

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do you like 40 hour week? holidays off ? unions got that fore us . how about maternity leave? working on that one now .

what is it about unions that upset you ?

 

This for one....

 

Phoenix has some of the most generous release-time policies in the nation: Six police officers are allowed to work full-time on union business, receiving full pay, benefits, and 960 hours of guaranteed overtime, courtesy of the Phoenix taxpayers, and the union is also granted 2,000 work-hours from other cops. The Phoenix Police Department has estimated that release time costs taxpayers around $1 million a year.

 

-I work at a hospital, I don't have holidays off.

- Having children should be a is not be a right. If you'll need government assistance after having a child I guess you should choose not to have the child.

- The 40hour work week was good, but now with Obamacare that goes out the window.

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This is so patently absurd on its face. If that statement were grounded in ANY kind of truth, ONLY union members would ever make above minimum wage. I have never been in a union. I will never be in a union. And yet my income last year was exactly 8 times what it was the year after I got out of the Army. How do you explain that in the absence of union representation? It boggles the mind, does it not? And no, I am not a CEO, or other C level company officer.

MANY RATS OWE their WORK HOURS & HIGHER WAGES to UNIONS THAT FOUGHT FOR THEM FOR ALL. THAT IS SOMETHING that ONLY IDIOTS doN'T understand.

 

END THE FAILED IDIOT CON DRUG WAR THAT HAS BEEN BANKRUPTING OUR STATES, OUR NATION & OUR PEOPLE WITH AN OUT-OF-CONTROL PRISON CULTURE FOR OVER A HALF CENTURY !

Reverse the Debt Clock. End ALL WARS (INCLUDING the Drug War) & Foreign Military Aid, & return to more tax brackets for the VERY rich.

In the interest of fairness, the MULTIMILLIONAIRES & BILLIONAIRES who make their money on the rise of stock prices should not be allowed to pay a smaller percentage than the middle class who work hard for their money.

Now is the time to update our Post Roads for this new millennium.

prPMTworld2014-3-27A.jpg

https://twitter.com/...th/with_replies

FIXEDnewsCORP --- UNfair, UNbalanced & AFRAID to be otherwise.

http://thedailyshow....14---tom-cruise

http://thedailyshow....14---anita-hill

http://www.thedailys...ional-autocrats

http://www.thedailys...istraction-loop

roger ailes, koch brothers & roberts' court --- talk about stacking the deck against the 99% of US* Americans.

Plug in $10 million: http://qz.com/74271/...tes-since-1913/

Dave Peiser For Congress! DUMP ISSA BEFORE HE WASTES EVEN MORE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX $ ON NON-SCANDALS!

http://www.peiserforcongress.com/

http://<span style="...real-tax-reform

PeaceFlagEdit2011-4-6_bigger.JPG

2014: VOTE FOR *WE THE PEOPLE IN THE "PEOPLE'S HOUSE!" USA!

prPMT2010-10-29.GIF

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The free market should determine wages. If people will do a job $5 an hour is that bad. If nobody takes the job for $5 and hour then the employer would need to up the hourly rate. Maybe some of the current "minimum" wage jobs now could pay more if the other less skilled "minimum' wage jobs got paid less.

About the closest this country got to a free market was after the Civil War. The result was a few people fabulously wealthy, a small and weak middle class, a low payed working class and the unemployed......kinda like what we're headed for now!

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About the closest this country got to a free market was after the Civil War. The result was a few people fabulously wealthy, a small and weak middle class, a low payed working class and the unemployed......kinda like what we're headed for now!

Thanks to the IDIOT tCON MENTALITY FOSTERED BY THE OVERpd.IDIOTS@FIXEDnewsCORP.

 

END THE FAILED IDIOT CON DRUG WAR THAT HAS BEEN BANKRUPTING OUR STATES, OUR NATION & OUR PEOPLE WITH AN OUT-OF-CONTROL PRISON CULTURE FOR OVER A HALF CENTURY !

Reverse the Debt Clock. End ALL WARS (INCLUDING the Drug War) & Foreign Military Aid, & return to more tax brackets for the VERY rich.

In the interest of fairness, the MULTIMILLIONAIRES & BILLIONAIRES who make their money on the rise of stock prices should not be allowed to pay a smaller percentage than the middle class who work hard for their money.

Now is the time to update our Post Roads for this new millennium.

prPMTworld2014-3-27A.jpg

https://twitter.com/...th/with_replies

FIXEDnewsCORP --- UNfair, UNbalanced & AFRAID to be otherwise.

http://thedailyshow....14---tom-cruise

http://thedailyshow....14---anita-hill

http://www.thedailys...ional-autocrats

http://www.thedailys...istraction-loop

roger ailes, koch brothers & roberts' court --- talk about stacking the deck against the 99% of US* Americans.

Plug in $10 million: http://qz.com/74271/...tes-since-1913/

Dave Peiser For Congress! DUMP ISSA BEFORE HE WASTES EVEN MORE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX $ ON NON-SCANDALS!

http://www.peiserforcongress.com/

http://<span style="...real-tax-reform

PeaceFlagEdit2011-4-6_bigger.JPG

2014: VOTE FOR *WE THE PEOPLE IN THE "PEOPLE'S HOUSE!" USA!

prPMT2010-10-29.GIF

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Mussolini hated unions too

 

At least the Italians were smart enough to finally hang their Fascists. Here, we elect them to public office and applaud every time they shaft the middle class worker.

 

Looks like the conservative fascists on this forum are still in the majority. Must make it difficult for the few libs still around to stomach.

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