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Why we're doomed


LisaB
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All it takes to bring down a technology-based civilization is a small push. Even when this nation was young, its existence depended on a web of interconnectedness, including skilled artisans, mill owners, food producers, currency regulators, court systems, military, workers, information distributors (Ben Franklin was one). History has seen entire giant civilizations laid low regularly.

Today, we still have and need these things, but the way they operate depends on an extremely fragile grid of power generation and computer systems, the failure of any significant part being like throwing a boulder into a mill pond -- the water turns into an ocean-appearing storm in seconds.

Thousands of people study all this interconnectedness, and thousands more study the basic building blocks without which none of it would be possible -- you can corral thousands of contributing parts that keep the ecosystem going and call it "climate." It's a shame that the word has morphed into a political term, because, like knocking down one domino, the mention of the word sets off a sequence of thoughts quite different from the way it was as recently as the 1960's.

All of this study -- millions of man-hours -- has led to the recognition of patterns. As we all know, one of the cornerstones of science is the ability to test something over and over and reach the same conclusion. Until that happens, you don't have anything you can trust.

The 97% agreement among scientists concerning the probability that man's activities are contributing to major changes to the envelope whose particularly narrow-band of balances make it possible for us and every other living thing to exist comes from successful replication in measurements of these changes.

Unfortunately, most human beings are not scientists, not critical thinkers, are emotion- and fear-driven, have personal wants and needs that steer every thought, all of which make it pretty much impossible to look at anything of even mild importance objectively. Look at the arguments over science. Pure research has led to practical application that's brought us most of the things we use: planes, trains, automobiles, ships, computers, communications, medicine. Everyone is quite happy about it, too.

But when science brings to our attention things that set off alarm bells concerning non-rational, emotional parts of us, and if such scientific conclusions are in conflict with those parts of us, we reject science out of hand and start making facile statements like "Aw, what do pointy-headed scientists know?" and "Everybody knows scientists are in the pay of interest groups" -- giving us justification to deny those things that make us uncomfortable.

It's too bad that we seek that comfort over facts, when certain facts, ignored, can bring us all down very easily.

Anyone who's seen the series Revolution, in which electricity has failed worldwide for a couple of decades, sees that without that one thing, everything we take for granted falls down like a card house. There's no more nations, no law enforcement, no military, no protection. We become tribal, killing anyone who gets in our way. No more manufacturing, no more housing, no more food production except at a pre-industrial level, and of course no medicine. We become a group of millions of scavengers, searching for and defending products that that delicate web of interconnectedness brought us. But it doesn't exist anymore.

-------------------

We pride ourselves on our intelligence. We boast of our ability to reason. But what we won't admit even to ourselves, lying in our beds alone at night, in our most personal space, is that despite our intelligence and ability to reason, we are frog-marched into everything we think and do by something entirely outside of those things: emotion. We hate emotion. We tell ourselves and each other that emotion is weakness. This puts us on a precipice without our even knowing. We regularly fall off it into bad decisions of every kind, including the ultimate bad decision: war. In all of man's existence, we've been at war longer than we've been at peace. Logically, that's senseless. Emotionally, it's exactly what one would expect, and that fact of being at war longer than at peace is proof that emotion, not logic or intelligence, rules us.

If logic really did rule us, we would approach any threat with caution. When we hear a storm is coming, we never know 100% that it will hit where we happen to be. But we prepare for it to a level commensurate with the severity of the threat.

Science is ringing a particularly-loud alarm bell at us. It's telling us that we are on another precipice, facing another threat. The nature of this particular threat, if it comes to pass, will have consequences dwarfing all the wars man has fought put together.

But most of us either don't know much about it and another big chunk of us hotly denies its consequences and even its existence. And another group takes it seriously.

In the video below, the structure is shown being built in sped-up time - it took 65 hours to assemble. Watch how fast it comes down in real time -- it takes 12 seconds.

It takes centuries to put up a civilization, and no time at all to bring it down.

To watch it go down while doing nothing but blame one another is how it always happens.

 

 

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We pride ourselves on our intelligence. We boast of our ability to reason.

 

Whom is this "WE" you speak for? I do not have pride in following dictating policies protecting the pride where society has characters honoring "Nobody knows everything about now specifically."

 

I am no body of collective thoughts recited regardless what real is. That is character role playing by choice in ignoring one's own instincts.

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Please summarize in one sentence what all that says thanks

Nobody wants to dumb things down to your pitifully incompetent level of comprehension, kingofthecooties. If you can't manage to read anything longer than a matchbook cover, you should get yourself over to one of the rightwingnut forums where you'd be right at home.

 

Try the Conservative Political Forum to find retarded nutjobs of your caliber.

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Actually, the " Climate Change Denial" scam is in large part yet another case of our buddies the Kochs ...who own a lot of Fossil Fuel related business...inserting their business agenda into Right Wing ideology. They have a big impact on the "talking points" Heritage supplies to Right wing media and politicians. The OUTCOME is that people who'd normally assume the majority of experts are telling us something important....get sucked in on something where the whole "Denial" thing isn't even their fight but they blindly follow the propaganda package from Beck, Limbaugh, various paranoid web sites. The HERD animals get manipulated and are desperate to belong to something so they end up Accepting as gospel, some junk they probably would not...but ....it gets to be a cultish thing. You end up with knuckleheads who, on their own would hardly even think about some "issues" feeling they have to conform to the Party Line.

 

It's funny...the major oil companies really have made minimal fuss about the Climate Denial thing....logically getting that Science actually is part of their BUSINESS and they have to adapt to reality.

 

An ironic twist is that much of the RISK of climate change...hits the RED STATES hardest. Big storms? Mostly the southern coastlines get hurricanes. Tornadoes mainly hit from Texas up to Nebraska. A MAJOR concern is that heat and drought can wipe out crops across the central states. If the central states have 3 years of serious drought...high heat...the economic damage to the region is HUGE and it has a major impact nationally. If half the corn crop dies...that impacts a lot more than corn flakes and tortillas, the price of Pork and Chicken soars. Rather than us exporting grain...we'd be short and odds are other countries also have problems.

 

You'd think so called LEADERS in Red States would be VERY concerned about the PROS warning about a growing risk...but they serve the Koch machine and not their districts. They don't CARE.

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All it takes to bring down a technology-based civilization is a small push. Even when this nation was young, its existence depended on a web of interconnectedness, including skilled artisans, mill owners, food producers, currency regulators, court systems, military, workers, information distributors (Ben Franklin was one). History has seen entire giant civilizations laid low regularly.

 

Today, we still have and need these things, but the way they operate depends on an extremely fragile grid of power generation and computer systems, the failure of any significant part being like throwing a boulder into a mill pond -- the water turns into an ocean-appearing storm in seconds.

 

Thousands of people study all this interconnectedness, and thousands more study the basic building blocks without which none of it would be possible -- you can corral thousands of contributing parts that keep the ecosystem going and call it "climate." It's a shame that the word has morphed into a political term, because, like knocking down one domino, the mention of the word sets off a sequence of thoughts quite different from the way it was as recently as the 1960's.

 

All of this study -- millions of man-hours -- has led to the recognition of patterns. As we all know, one of the cornerstones of science is the ability to test something over and over and reach the same conclusion. Until that happens, you don't have anything you can trust.

 

The 97% agreement among scientists concerning the probability that man's activities are contributing to major changes to the envelope whose particularly narrow-band of balances make it possible for us and every other living thing to exist comes from successful replication in measurements of these changes.

 

Unfortunately, most human beings are not scientists, not critical thinkers, are emotion- and fear-driven, have personal wants and needs that steer every thought, all of which make it pretty much impossible to look at anything of even mild importance objectively. Look at the arguments over science. Pure research has led to practical application that's brought us most of the things we use: planes, trains, automobiles, ships, computers, communications, medicine. Everyone is quite happy about it, too.

 

But when science brings to our attention things that set off alarm bells concerning non-rational, emotional parts of us, and if such scientific conclusions are in conflict with those parts of us, we reject science out of hand and start making facile statements like "Aw, what do pointy-headed scientists know?" and "Everybody knows scientists are in the pay of interest groups" -- giving us justification to deny those things that make us uncomfortable.

 

It's too bad that we seek that comfort over facts, when certain facts, ignored, can bring us all down very easily.

 

Anyone who's seen the series Revolution, in which electricity has failed worldwide for a couple of decades, sees that without that one thing, everything we take for granted falls down like a card house. There's no more nations, no law enforcement, no military, no protection. We become tribal, killing anyone who gets in our way. No more manufacturing, no more housing, no more food production except at a pre-industrial level, and of course no medicine. We become a group of millions of scavengers, searching for and defending products that that delicate web of interconnectedness brought us. But it doesn't exist anymore.

 

-------------------

 

We pride ourselves on our intelligence. We boast of our ability to reason. But what we won't admit even to ourselves, lying in our beds alone at night, in our most personal space, is that despite our intelligence and ability to reason, we are frog-marched into everything we think and do by something entirely outside of those things: emotion. We hate emotion. We tell ourselves and each other that emotion is weakness. This puts us on a precipice without our even knowing. We regularly fall off it into bad decisions of every kind, including the ultimate bad decision: war. In all of man's existence, we've been at war longer than we've been at peace. Logically, that's senseless. Emotionally, it's exactly what one would expect, and that fact of being at war longer than at peace is proof that emotion, not logic or intelligence, rules us.

 

If logic really did rule us, we would approach any threat with caution. When we hear a storm is coming, we never know 100% that it will hit where we happen to be. But we prepare for it to a level commensurate with the severity of the threat.

 

Science is ringing a particularly-loud alarm bell at us. It's telling us that we are on another precipice, facing another threat. The nature of this particular threat, if it comes to pass, will have consequences dwarfing all the wars man has fought put together.

 

But most of us either don't know much about it and another big chunk of us hotly denies its consequences and even its existence. And another group takes it seriously.

 

In the video below, the structure is shown being built in sped-up time - it took 65 hours to assemble. Watch how fast it comes down in real time -- it takes 12 seconds.

 

It takes centuries to put up a civilization, and no time at all to bring it down.

 

To watch it go down while doing nothing but blame one another is how it always happens.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueP-s

 

A nation divided cannot stand, and right wing media is doing everything it can to keep America divided.

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A nation divided cannot stand, and right wing media is doing everything it can to keep America divided.

lol. that's very funny. actually....you're right in the way that the media has this country so dumbed down

that even a scam as stupid as "global warming' could even work. i mean....they tried this climate change

crap in the 70s, but people just weren't so gullible then. the global cooling ice age $h!t was laughed at.

the mass media today has taken stupid to a whole new level. anyone who believes in fox, msnbc, cnn,

cbs, or any of the corporate/government channels is a total f**king dumb ass. the faith in the global warming

scam by the masses proves that as much as anything.

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lol. that's very funny. actually....you're right in the way that the media has this country so dumbed down

that even a scam as stupid as "global warming' could even work. i mean....they tried this climate change

crap in the 70s, but people just weren't so gullible then. the global cooling ice age $h!t was laughed at.

the mass media today has taken stupid to a whole new level. anyone who believes in fox, msnbc, cnn,

cbs, or any of the corporate/government channels is a total f**king dumb ass. the faith in the global warming

scam by the masses proves that as much as anything.

Where do you get your information?

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Where do you get your information?

i go to different sites, some far left and some far right and sift through the garbage and piece together what i believe

an accurate interpretation for myself. it's not hard. once you do it a few times you'll be able to see the manipulative propaganda.

just the fact though that you actually see msnbc as more honest than fox says everything anyone needs to know about you.

you're every bit the dupe a rush limbaugh junkie is.

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I bought cliff notes beatch

roflmfao...great whit...lol

 

Well, I've learned something today. Critical thinking is not popular here. It requires too much work.

it took you near 7000 posts to figure that out.....we don't like to think here..i don't come here for work, just laughs

 

Nobody wants to dumb things down to your pitifully incompetent level of comprehension, kingofthecooties. If you can't manage to read anything longer than a matchbook cover, you should get yourself over to one of the rightwingnut forums where you'd be right at home.

 

Try the Conservative Political Forum to find retarded nutjobs of your caliber.

bannable offense there pogostick advertising another forum...better hope the mods aint on their period

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Lisa and Pogo I do read and comprehend your postings here and agree with a good amount of it, question some of it, and am not in the scientific position to judge the rest. I think this is a fair position. What I do not understand is why you are preaching HERE, instead of contacting your President and Congressional members who can perhaps, maybe (but probably not) do something about global warming-climate change. Reading your many posts I surmise that you both support President Obama. Yet, reading your many posts, I suspect you should be opposing him with all your might. He is setting an excruciatingly embarrassing example for the United States each time he ponies up Air Force One (and the accompanying press planes and fighter jets) to ride across the country for a press conference or campaign appearance. This is not the behavior of someone concerned with global warming. This is the behavior of someone concerned about his political survivability (and now legacy) and getting somewhere fast for vacation.

 

So until the folks you support start supporting your position on global warming with DEEDS and not just pretty words, you might want to rethink criticizing fellow posters here who have no power whatsoever in the arena of global climate change. Save that outrage for those who do.

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Well LisaB we elected a fool who never had a job running anything in his life to be president. He then surrounded himself with academics that also never had a job running anything. Now Obama admits that the insurance business is so much more complicated than he and the others thought. Well welcome to the real world Mr. President. I thought you got that message after giving a ton of money to the shovel ready jobs that did not exist. When we elect a person to the presidency like Obama with absolutely no experience in the real world and he surrounds himself with more of the same and Obama care and that web site is what you can expect. We now have Obama care and a web site that if you do anything to them will cause something else to go wrong. In my former job we called it pealing the onion. They never ever look at the unintended consequences even when warned. The Canadian company that got the no bid contract has an abysmal record of creating web sites. Why did no one look at their history before giving them that job. The result we have is par for the course for that company. Many times the governments throw out their web site and have someone else create it. But then Michelle has a good friend in the upper management there.

 

All of the above is because of the interconnected complexity of modern day life and Obama and co. want to play around with a major part of our economy with ACA, Dodd Frank, excessive taxing and massive spending. We are losing more people working every day. and many going on part time jobs because of them as well as businesses failing since they are unable to get loans because the deficit sucks up most of the money that is loaned out. The ACA is anything but affordable with the massive increases in the cost of insurance and the bronze plans will have people going bankrupt because of the massive $12,500 deductible built into it. Those dominoes might start falling.

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Well LisaB we elected a fool who never had a job running anything in his life to be president. He then surrounded himself with academics that also never had a job running anything. Now Obama admits that the insurance business is so much more complicated than he and the others thought. Well welcome to the real world Mr. President. I thought you got that message after giving a ton of money to the shovel ready jobs that did not exist. When we elect a person to the presidency like Obama with absolutely no experience in the real world and he surrounds himself with more of the same and Obama care and that web site is what you can expect. They never ever look at the unintended consequences even when warned. The Canadian company that got the no bid contract has an abysmal record of creating web sites. Why did no one look at their history before giving them that job. The result we have is par for the course for that company. Many times the governments throw out their web site and have someone else create it. But then Michelle has a good friend in the upper management there.

 

+ 1

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Well, I've learned something today. Critical thinking is not popular here. It requires too much work.

 

And you're OBVIOUSLY VERY lazy as you've shown ZERO signs of being able to think critically/logically. Remember? Your thought processes are controlled by "emotions"..... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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i go to different sites, some far left and some far right and sift through the garbage and piece together what i believe

an accurate interpretation for myself. it's not hard. once you do it a few times you'll be able to see the manipulative propaganda.

just the fact though that you actually see msnbc as more honest than fox says everything anyone needs to know about you.

you're every bit the dupe a rush limbaugh junkie is.

 

You get scientific truth from looking at far left and far right websites? Remind me not to get on an airplane with you at the controls. You'd have learned about flying from trying out several brands of balsa wood gliders.

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You get scientific truth from looking at far left and far right websites? Remind me not to get on an airplane with you at the controls. You'd have learned about flying from trying out several brands of balsa wood gliders.

the inner mechanisms of manipulation can be found in our "science" as much as anything else. i believe the catholic church

proved this centuries ago. when those in power fund the "science", more often than not, the conclusions and theories are going to

be rigged to preordained outcomes.

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