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The Theory of Divine Creation Goes Down in Flames!


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There are more than 8 billion reasons for me to "keep the faith". The trees, the plants, the birds, and all the rest of life that would not exist on this planet had it not been fortunate enough to form within the 'Goldilocks' of a mundane yellow dwarf star amongst a sea of billions and billions.

 

From the right wingnut lunatic fringe's favorite source.

so the fact that the earth and everything on it exists simply because of Pure Happenstance? You do realize how unlikey that sounds right? The Probability;y of what you claimed happened happening is astronomical. It is far more likely that we were created by an intelligent being than evolving from single celled amoebas in the primordial soup

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You still haven't shown evidence to support your claim.

he doesn't need evidence...he has sufficient FAITH in his viewpoint

 

so the fact that the earth and everything on it exists simply because of Pure Happenstance? You do realize how unlikey that sounds right? The Probability;y of what you claimed happened happening is astronomical. It is far more likely that we were created by an intelligent being than evolving from single celled amoebas in the primordial soup

so its unlikely that out of countless planets in countless systems there may be one capable of evolving advanced life? hmmmmmm....

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he doesn't need evidence...he has sufficient FAITH in his viewpoint

 

so its unlikely that out of countless planets in countless systems there may be one capable of evolving advanced life? hmmmmmm....

The Probability of that happening by pure happenstance with no outside interference is extremely unlikely. It isn't impossible, but it is extremely unlikely.

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The Probability of that happening by pure happenstance with no outside interference is extremely unlikely. It isn't impossible, but it is extremely unlikely.

I don't discredit that viewpoint, it makes sense, but I think the sheer scope of the mathematics involved means that just pointing to the intricacy of our existence as PROOF of a designer is in itself quite unstable.

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Cosmological Constant:

 

.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001

 

 

Unique among all books ever written, the Bible accurately foretells specific events-in detail-many years, sometimes centuries, before they occur. Approximately 2500 prophecies appear in the pages of the Bible, about 2000 of which already have been fulfilled to the letterno errors.

 

(The remaining 500 or so reach into the future and may be seen unfolding as days go by.) Since the probability for any one of these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance averages less than one in ten (figured very conservatively) and since the prophecies are for the most part independent of one another, the odds for all these prophecies having been fulfilled by chance without error is less than one in 102000 (that is 1 with 2000 zeros written after it)!

 

God is not the only one, however, who uses forecasts of future events to get people's attention. Satan does, too. Through clairvoyants (such as Jeanne Dixon and Edgar Cayce), mediums, spiritists, and others, come remarkable predictions, though rarely with more than about 60 percent accuracy, never with total accuracy. Messages from Satan, furthermore, fail to match the detail of Bible prophecies, nor do they include a call to repentance.

 

The acid test for identifying a prophet of God is recorded by Moses in Deuteronomy 18:21-22. According to this Bible passage (and others), God's prophets, as distinct from Satan's spokesmen, are 100 percent accurate in their predictions. There is no room for error.

 

As economy does not permit an explanation of all the Biblical prophecies that have been fulfilled, what follows in a discussion of a few that exemplify the high degree of specificity, the range of projection, and/or the "supernature" of the predicted events. Readers are encouraged to select others, as well, and to carefully examine their historicity.

 

(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)*

 

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

 

(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slavethirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," usedjust as predictedfor the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1011.)

 

(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)

 

(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1015.)

 

(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109.)

 

(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1018.)

 

(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

 

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillmentin our lifetime.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 120.)

 

(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 105.)

 

(10) Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 107).

 

(11) The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimouslyand accurately, according to the eye-witness accountby a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 109).

 

(12) Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 108).

 

(13) One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places") of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

 

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013).

 

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10138 (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)that chance = 1 in 1080. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each reader should feel free to make his own reasonable estimates of probability for the chance fulfillment of the prophecies cited here. In any case, the probabilities deduced still will be absurdly remote.

 

Given that the Bible proves so reliable a document, there is every reason to expect that the remaining 500 prophecies, those slated for the "time of the end," also will be fulfilled to the last letter. Who can afford to ignore these coming events, much less miss out on the immeasurable blessings offered to anyone and everyone who submits to the control of the Bible's author, Jesus Christ? Would a reasonable person take lightly God's warning of judgment for those who reject what they know to be true about Jesus Christ and the Bible, or who reject Jesus' claim on their lives?

 

*The estimates of probability included herein come from a group of secular research scientists. As an example of their method of estimation, consider their calculations for this first prophecy cited:

 

Since the Messiah's ministry could conceivably begin in any one of about 5000 years, there is, then, one chance in about 5000 that his ministry could begin in 26 A.D.

Since the Messiah is God in human form, the possibility of his being killed is considerably low, say less than one chance in 10.

Relative to the second destruction of Jerusalem, this execution has roughly an even chance of occurring before or after that event, that is, one chance in 2.

Hence, the probability of chance fulfillment for this prophecy is 1 in 5000 x 10 x 2, which is 1 in 100,000, or 1 in 105.

 

Other related articles that may interest you:

 

http://www.reasons.org/articles/articles/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-for-the-reliability-of-the-bible

 

http://www.reasons.org/sitemap/subject/life-on-other-planets

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In the Habitable Zone But With No Water

By Dr. Jeff Zweerink

 

Planets around M dwarf stars have generated a lot of interest latelyespecially with the recent discovery of an earth-mass planet in the region where liquid water could exist on the surface. Since 75% of stars are M dwarfs, this number greatly expands the potential life-sites in the universe if habitable planets can form around these stars. We discussed some constraints on any such planets in a previous TNRTB.

 

An article published recently in the Astrophysical Journal identifies another problem for getting liquid water on any earth-sized planets around M dwarfs. As you might expect, planets closer to the star form in a hotter environment than planets farther away. During the planetary accretion phase, the temperature in the habitable zone around an M dwarf is significantly higher than it is around a G-class star like our sun. Additionally, the amount of volatile material, like water, that a planet accretes during formation sensitively depends on the temperature of the surrounding environment.

 

The author of the article paints two scenarios of planet formation around an M dwarf. Any planet that can accrete enough water to make an ocean forms far outside the habitable zone where liquid water could exist on the surface. Alternatively, any planet forming in the habitable zone does not accrete enough water during formation to make an ocean. Either way, these results add to the growing body of evidence that the abundant M dwarf stars fail to meet the most basic requirements for supporting life. I find these results exciting because they continue to buttress the biblical inference that Earth is unique in its capacity to support advanced life like human beings.

 

http://www.reasons.org/articles/in-the-habitable-zone-but-with-no-water

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so the fact that the earth and everything on it exists simply because of Pure Happenstance? You do realize how unlikey that sounds right? The Probability;y of what you claimed happened happening is astronomical. It is far more likely that we were created by an intelligent being than evolving from single celled amoebas in the primordial soup

All of the credible, observable, measurable, and recordable evidence supports the theory that this planet and all that exists upon it, along with it's sister planets orbiting a nondescript yellow dwarf star in an ordinary galaxy, is the result of cosmic, geological, and biological evolution. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

And 8.8 billion other planets orbiting within the sweet spot of accommodating stars just within our own galaxy, which is just one of a hundred billion in itself, is hardly pure happenstance. It's just natural occurrence.

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Where's the flames? As an agnostic I don't see anything in your article to debunk Christian beliefs.

You just debunked it with that question. Beliefs, and knowledge of what's actually tangible evidence are two entirely different things. You can believe anything. But you cannot deny evidence in fact. And beliefs never, ever trump evidence in fact. Ever. Once tangible evidence is proven, belief is debunked. Facts in evidence are beyond reproach, and requires no further proof. Belief requires proof at every turn, and can never be taken at face value. If you maintain a belief is true, the burden of proof is on you, and anything short of solid physical evidence of that belief falls short, and the belief is debunked, and discredited until proven otherwise. Belief and faith are not, and cannot ever be held up as evidence of anything.

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You just debunked it with that question. Beliefs, and knowledge of what's actually tangible evidence are two entirely different things. You can believe anything. But you cannot deny evidence in fact. And beliefs never, ever trump evidence in fact. Ever. Once tangible evidence is proven, belief is debunked. Facts in evidence are beyond reproach, and requires no further proof. Belief requires proof at every turn, and can never be taken at face value. If you maintain a belief is true, the burden of proof is on you, and anything short of solid physical evidence of that belief falls short, and the belief is debunked, and discredited until proven otherwise. Belief and faith are not, and cannot ever be held up as evidence of anything.

Applause.gif

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You just debunked it with that question. Beliefs, and knowledge of what's actually tangible evidence are two entirely different things. You can believe anything. But you cannot deny evidence in fact. And beliefs never, ever trump evidence in fact. Ever. Once tangible evidence is proven, belief is debunked. Facts in evidence are beyond reproach, and requires no further proof. Belief requires proof at every turn, and can never be taken at face value. If you maintain a belief is true, the burden of proof is on you, and anything short of solid physical evidence of that belief falls short, and the belief is debunked, and discredited until proven otherwise. Belief and faith are not, and cannot ever be held up as evidence of anything.

 

Yea you're right, the only thing your argument is missing is "evidence in fact." Nice try shewy, but no cookie for you. :lol:

 

 

You just debunked it with that question. Beliefs, and knowledge of what's actually tangible evidence are two entirely different things. You can believe anything. But you cannot deny evidence in fact. And beliefs never, ever trump evidence in fact. Ever. Once tangible evidence is proven, belief is debunked. Facts in evidence are beyond reproach, and requires no further proof. Belief requires proof at every turn, and can never be taken at face value. If you maintain a belief is true, the burden of proof is on you, and anything short of solid physical evidence of that belief falls short, and the belief is debunked, and discredited until proven otherwise. Belief and faith are not, and cannot ever be held up as evidence of anything.

Applause.gif

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Neither Christians or evolutionists have proven their "belief."

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Neither Christians or evolutionists have proven their "belief."

The evolutionists have all of the credible, tangible, measurable, and recordable evidence on their side. What do the creationists have, besides debunked rhetoric?

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The evolutionists have all of the credible, tangible, measurable, and recordable evidence on their side. What do the creationists have, besides debunked rhetoric?

 

You can't show me any more evidence than the Christians have or you would have....your evidence doesn't exist Corky. and you claiming it does, doesn't make it so. :lol:

 

What a retard. :lol:

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Your assertion that humans are "central to the universe" is the first time I've ever heard that claim made, and appears to be strawman fabricated out of whole cloth, that you can then argue against.

 

If you think that rocks spinning in space are proof debunking creationism, I won't bother arguing with you.

There is nothing as ignorant as a willfully closed mind.

Seriously. I think this could be the most ignorant OP ever.

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You can't show me any more evidence than the Christians have or you would have....your evidence doesn't exist Corky. and you claiming it does, doesn't make it so. :lol:

 

What a retard. :lol:

It isn't that I've failed to present any evidence. It's that you're so chicken shit of facing the evidence that you prefer to remain within your comfort zone with your shoulders tucked firmly between your buttocks to support your head up your ass.

 

8_954eea8cfea1d821c7ed8a17abdb57922.jpg

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It isn't that I've failed to present any evidence. It's that you're so chicken shit of facing the evidence that you prefer to remain within your comfort zone with your shoulders tucked firmly between your buttocks to support your head up your ass.

 

 

...hey azzhole, just a reminder!

 

Only 5 ObamaCare signups so far in nation's capital

 

:lol:

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All of the credible, observable, measurable, and recordable evidence supports the theory that this planet and all that exists upon it, along with it's sister planets orbiting a nondescript yellow dwarf star in an ordinary galaxy, is the result of cosmic, geological, and biological evolution. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

And 8.8 billion other planets orbiting within the sweet spot of accommodating stars just within our own galaxy, which is just one of a hundred billion in itself, is hardly pure happenstance. It's just natural occurrence.

Ok lets assume that you are right. I still choose to Believe that God created the world and everything on it. Is that a problem for you?

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Whatever. Until the days comes when a atheist/scientist can explain how and prove that matter can indeed be created out of thin nothing I'll keep going with some sort of higher power. In my case, God.

 

You do what feels comfortable for you but, does it have to be one or the other? Is a decision to believe or not believe necessary? In the absence of evidence to prove or disprove, isn't the most reasonable attitude the one that says "I don't know"?

 

 

Ok lets assume that you are right. I still choose to Believe that God created the world and everything on it. Is that a problem for you?

 

 

 

Not as long as you don't attempt to impose your belief on me through any form of government policy. I would tell an atheist the same thing, if I caught them trying to change policies that put restrictions on the right to religious worship.

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You do what feels comfortable for you but, does it have to be one or the other? Is a decision to believe or not believe necessary? In the absence of evidence to prove or disprove, isn't the most reasonable attitude the one that says "I don't know"?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not as long as you don't attempt to impose your belief on me through any form of government policy. I would tell an atheist the same thing, if I caught them trying to change policies that put restrictions on the right to religious worship.

 

Yet you choose to support ideology that forces your beliefs on others. Odd, don't ya think?

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...hey azzhole, just a reminder!

 

Only 5 ObamaCare signups so far in nation's capital

 

:lol:

 

If FoxNews reports it, it must be true. :lol:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/08/dc-obamacare-numbers-show-5-people-signed-up-for-exchange/

 

There's a storm raging through the Phillipines with winds topping out at 200 mph and FoxNews finds Obamacare signups to be so much more newsworthy.

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If FoxNews reports it, it must be true. :lol:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/08/dc-obamacare-numbers-show-5-people-signed-up-for-exchange/

 

There's a storm raging through the Phillipines with winds topping out at 200 mph and FoxNews finds Obamacare signups to be so much more newsworthy.

 

I posted the story from politico on the thread started about this. Are you saying politico is wrong? Would you like to move over to the thread on this topic?

 

You should really do some internet research before you stick your foot in your mouth. The internet is a great tool for those who have the intelligence to use it.

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Yet you choose to support ideology that forces your beliefs on others. Odd, don't ya think?

 

I have no set or unretractable beliefs. I'm a mind in flux, a soul in transit. My opinion today could alter tomorrow, based on new information. I voice the opinions I have at the time. I don't support any ideology that would force anything on anyone unless the anyone was acting in a manner that was injurious or harmful to others. I support reasonable laws enacted to protect the public from dangerous people, for just that reason, yet cringe at any law that constrains an individual's freedom.

 

There are certain basic humanist ideals I try to live up to and I support measures that promote those humanist ideals.

 

All my ideals are secular in nature and completely in tune with the ideals the Constitution and the International Bill of Human Rights were written to support and promote.

 

I do no forcing or arm twisting. I prefer persuasion.

 

So unless you care to point out something specific you think I support, like paying to live in a first world country with all the bennies that status gives us, or the modicum of responsibility we as civilized humans should accept towards other less fortunate humans, I'll be glad to debate them with you, as I have in the past.

 

Trolling me with angry little snippets while I'm in discussions with others is not necessary and makes you look like a too often whipped little puppy nipping at my toes.

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I have no set or unretractable beliefs. I'm a mind in flux, a soul in transit. My opinion today could alter tomorrow, based on new information. I voice the opinions I have at the time. I don't support any ideology that would force anything on anyone unless the anyone was acting in a manner that was injurious or harmful to others. I support reasonable laws enacted to protect the public from dangerous people, for just that reason, yet cringe at any law that constrains an individual's freedom.

 

There are certain basic humanist ideals I try to live up to and I support measures that promote those humanist ideals.

 

All my ideals are secular in nature and completely in tune with the ideals the Constitution and the International Bill of Human Rights were written to support and promote.

 

I do no forcing or arm twisting. I prefer persuasion.

 

So unless you care to point out something specific you think I support, like paying to live in a first world country with all the bennies that status gives us, or the modicum of responsibility we as civilized humans should accept towards other less fortunate humans, I'll be glad to debate them with you, as I have in the past.

 

.

 

Your support of the ACA and the employer mandate.

 

I removed your false, and angry, snippets that do not reflect my mood or temperament. You could say I removed your troll like comments. Wink wink

 

 

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