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Socialized Medicine

Progressives, Liberals, Atheists and Democrats think Obamacare (Socialized Medicine) can be made to work in America because it seems to work in other socialized nations.

Back in 2009, when Obamacare was being discussed, PBS did a program comparing the health care systems of many nations. The phrases I heard most often in the discussion were "price controls" and "reduced expectations".

Can "price controls" and "reduced expectations" work in America when there is a Democratic Party that will offer anything to get elected then steal from the responsible to give to the irresponsible.

America was built on freedom, the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. Safety nets that try to avoid failure mean reduced freedom for all. Use to, you could ride your motor cycle anyway you wanted, but then there were a lot of accidents so the government mandated helmets.

The reality is safety nets or freedom, they cannot co-exist.

The only insurance a biker should be required to have is a clean up and burial insurance.

In most socialized nations, people wait in long lines to see a doctor, so they don't bother. My understanding is that there is no such thing as an emergency room because you have to see a doctor first. Also, you don't really get to see a doctor, until you have seen a nurse practitioner.

Because of "price controls" and "reduced expectations", most wealthy people come to America for health care.

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In most socialized nations, people wait in long lines to see a doctor, so they don't bother. My understanding is that there is no such thing as an emergency room because you have to see a doctor first. Also, you don't really get to see a doctor, until you have seen a nurse practitioner.

 

Because of "price controls" and "reduced expectations", most wealthy people come to America for health care.

 

Just so you are aware, this is entirely wrong.

 

I live in a country with universal healthcare. When I need to see a GP, I can see one on the same day. The last time I went, I saw my GP in 2 hours of phoning for an appointment. There are also walk-in centres if you need them. And it's a GP you see - not a nurse practitioner. I've never seen a nurse practitioner instead of a GP, but understand that this is common in the USA.

 

There are emergency rooms in all hospitals. Generally, they are used for emergencies (though some people treat them as GP surgeries). No, you don't have to see a GP first. That would be ridiculous. By the way, even as a foreigner, you would be able to see a GP or receive emergency treatment free of charge here if you need it. You're welcome.

 

Health tourism is a huge (and growing industry). Yes, some people come to the USA. However, it isn't the top destination and an equal number of Americans are travelling abroad for healthcare (mostly for financial reasons).

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You're operating from three false premises. #1 that Obamacare is a socialist system and #2 Democrats just do it for the votes. #3 Socialist systems always result in "reduced expectations".

 

Socialist systems do not subsidize private industry like Obamacare does. In fact, Obamacare's small portion that subsidizes only subsidizes insurance companies that cover insurance. Most of Obamacare is a collective of rules and exchanges. You should look up "socialist". It's obviously a word that you are not only not comfortable with, you are completely oblivious to the meaning of it.

 

I can't speak for all Democrats but I want our party to improve our country. We love our country as much, if not more, than conservatives who fake their patriotism while they wave the American flag in one hand, and with their other, they shake their ignorant finger at the president and call him "muslim". People in this country should not be left to live on the streets, or die, sick in their homes, while the top 1% of income holders control the majority of this country's wealth. That's the center of my ideology regardless of whether it's a majority opinion or not.

 

Our health care system is ranked #37 in the world following 36 countries all with socialized health care systems. I don't know what you watched on tv that said different. It was obviously inaccurate.

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You're operating from three false premises. #1 that Obamacare is a socialist system and #2 Democrats just do it for the votes. #3 Socialist systems always result in "reduced expectations".

 

Socialist systems do not subsidize private industry like Obamacare does. In fact, Obamacare's small portion that subsidizes only subsidizes insurance companies that cover insurance. Most of Obamacare is a collective of rules and exchanges. You should look up "socialist". It's obviously a word that you are not only not comfortable with, you are completely oblivious to the meaning of it.

You're right. It more correct to describe the connection between this administration and the corporate world as fascism. Where if you disagree with the government, they will turn their surveillance on you, direct your phone and health care providers to provide them information about your actions, and remove your rights if they don't like what you are doing.

I can't speak for all Democrats but I want our party to improve our country. We love our country as much, if not more, than conservatives who fake their patriotism while they wave the American flag in one hand, and with their other, they shake their ignorant finger at the president and call him "muslim". People in this country should not be left to live on the streets, or die, sick in their homes, while the top 1% of income holders control the majority of this country's wealth. That's the center of my ideology regardless of whether it's a majority opinion or not.

I don't believe most democrats want to improve our country. They want to destroy what made our country great, and replace it with a nanny state which cedes personal responsibility to the government in exchange for being "taken care of". Of course it's passed off as "caring" for the less fortunate, as you've done here, but in reality you just want someone else to pay for your government goodies.

Our health care system is ranked #37 in the world following 36 countries all with socialized health care systems. I don't know what you watched on tv that said different. It was obviously inaccurate.

This has been debunked so many times it has track marks on it's back. The people doing the ranking prefer socialized care, so the targets are skewed in that ranking. We have a shorter life expectancy because we sit on our asses watching TV at night, eating ice cream, potato chips and candy, not because our healthcare system is worse. And our infant mortality rate is higher because we try to save every baby born, instead of discarding them, so in this case you penalize our healthcare system for being better and trying to save more babies.

The fact is that the majority of medical breakthroughs in care, medicine, treatment and devices come from our country BECAUSE of our healthcare system, not in spite of it.

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You're right. It more correct to describe the connection between this administration and the corporate world as fascism. Where if you disagree with the government, they will turn their surveillance on you, direct your phone and health care providers to provide them information about your actions, and remove your rights if they don't like what you are doing

OK, tin foil hat wearing guy. Thank you for your contribution.

.I don't believe most democrats want to improve our country. They want to destroy what made our country great, and replace it with a nanny state which cedes personal responsibility to the government in exchange for being "taken care of". Of course it's passed off as "caring" for the less fortunate, as you've done here, but in reality you just want someone else to pay for your government goodies.

You should join your tea party buddies and go protest another terrible situation that you are responsible for creating.

This has been debunked so many times it has track marks on it's back. The people doing the ranking prefer socialized care, so the targets are skewed in that ranking. We have a shorter life expectancy because we sit on our asses watching TV at night, eating ice cream, potato chips and candy, not because our healthcare system is worse. And our infant mortality rate is higher because we try to save every baby born, instead of discarding them, so in this case you penalize our healthcare system for being better and trying to save more babies.

I don't consider life style choices as an adequate "debunking" of WHO rankings. When you survey percentages of our country who don't have adequate health care and numbers of bankruptcies from health care, I see it as obvious that our access to health care is much worse than a socialist system.

The fact is that the majority of medical breakthroughs in care, medicine, treatment and devices come from our country BECAUSE of our healthcare system, not in spite of it.

This just make's me glad that some good could come from a system that has created countless millionaires while not actually doing a very good job of taking care of the entire country.-and you call Obama a corporatist? :D

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You're operating from three false premises. #1 that Obamacare is a socialist system and #2 Democrats just do it for the votes. #3 Socialist systems always result in "reduced expectations".

 

Socialist systems do not subsidize private industry like Obamacare does. In fact, Obamacare's small portion that subsidizes only subsidizes insurance companies that cover insurance. Most of Obamacare is a collective of rules and exchanges. You should look up "socialist". It's obviously a word that you are not only not comfortable with, you are completely oblivious to the meaning of it.

 

I can't speak for all Democrats but I want our party to improve our country. We love our country as much, if not more, than conservatives who fake their patriotism while they wave the American flag in one hand, and with their other, they shake their ignorant finger at the president and call him "muslim". People in this country should not be left to live on the streets, or die, sick in their homes, while the top 1% of income holders control the majority of this country's wealth. That's the center of my ideology regardless of whether it's a majority opinion or not.

 

Our health care system is ranked #37 in the world following 36 countries all with socialized health care systems. I don't know what you watched on tv that said different. It was obviously inaccurate.

 

Obamacare is a socialist system when the government pays for those that cannot pay, by stealing from the responsible to give to the irresponsible.

 

The America that I love is very different from the America you love (or want).

 

People in this country should be left to live on the streets, or die, sick in their homes if their problem is due to bad choices they make.

 

If the top 1% of income holders control the majority of this country's wealth got their wealth in an illegal manner they should be prosecuted for the crime they committed.

 

Safety nets encourage risky behavior.

 

The alternative to Socialized Medicine is Christianity.

 

In Socialism you give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, but with Christianity, you teach a man to fish and he feeds himself forever.

 

In Socialism you give a woman a fish and she will bring back another illegitimate child to be fed, but with Christianity, you teach a woman how to fish and she will find a husband that will feed her and the child.

 

Capitalism is cruel in the short term, but provides for long term survival of the society.

 

Socialism is short term relief, but a long term disaster because it creates a never ending dependency.

 

 

Just so you are aware, this is entirely wrong.

 

I live in a country with universal healthcare. When I need to see a GP, I can see one on the same day. The last time I went, I saw my GP in 2 hours of phoning for an appointment. There are also walk-in centres if you need them. And it's a GP you see - not a nurse practitioner. I've never seen a nurse practitioner instead of a GP, but understand that this is common in the USA.

 

There are emergency rooms in all hospitals. Generally, they are used for emergencies (though some people treat them as GP surgeries). No, you don't have to see a GP first. That would be ridiculous. By the way, even as a foreigner, you would be able to see a GP or receive emergency treatment free of charge here if you need it. You're welcome.

 

Health tourism is a huge (and growing industry). Yes, some people come to the USA. However, it isn't the top destination and an equal number of Americans are travelling abroad for healthcare (mostly for financial reasons).

 

What country is this?

 

If it is Canada then I can present a large number of articles that present the problems with the health care system in Canada.

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What country is this?

 

If it is Canada then I can present a large number of articles that present the problems with the health care system in Canada.

 

The UK. I'm a Brit. Present whatever articles you like. I live it and have worked in most parts of the NHS at different times.

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The UK. I'm a Brit. Present whatever articles you like. I live it and have worked in most parts of the NHS at different times.

It's strange that your personal account of NHS varies so much from what we see in your newspapers.

Why is that?

 

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Just so you are aware, this is entirely wrong.

 

I live in a country with universal healthcare. When I need to see a GP, I can see one on the same day. The last time I went, I saw my GP in 2 hours of phoning for an appointment. There are also walk-in centres if you need them. And it's a GP you see - not a nurse practitioner. I've never seen a nurse practitioner instead of a GP, but understand that this is common in the USA.

 

There are emergency rooms in all hospitals. Generally, they are used for emergencies (though some people treat them as GP surgeries). No, you don't have to see a GP first. That would be ridiculous. By the way, even as a foreigner, you would be able to see a GP or receive emergency treatment free of charge here if you need it. You're welcome.

 

Health tourism is a huge (and growing industry). Yes, some people come to the USA. However, it isn't the top destination and an equal number of Americans are travelling abroad for healthcare (mostly for financial reasons).

 

Seeing a GP is one thing. The UK has document longer wait times for specialists, lab work, and surgeries. If you want a prescription seeing a GP is the way to go. If you actually want something fixed you need to see a specialist.

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It's strange that your personal account of NHS varies so much from what we see in your newspapers.

Why is that?

Maybe you are reading the Daily Mail?

 

 

 

Seeing a GP is one thing. The UK has document longer wait times for specialists, lab work, and surgeries. If you want a prescription seeing a GP is the way to go. If you actually want something fixed you need to see a specialist.

 

 

 

It depends on what you need.

 

Yes, for some elective surgery, waiting times need to come down. For stuff you need now, you don't generally wait. It isn't perfect, but it's good.

 

Edit: I just looked up hip replacements at my local hospital The waiting time is 8 weeks. The info is available online and I can go where it's fastest. What is it near you?

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The UK. I'm a Brit. Present whatever articles you like. I live it and have worked in most parts of the NHS at different times.

 

You worked in most parts of the NHS, well that explains things.

 

I liked the story of the amputee that wanted the NHS to pay a prostitute to come service him as a health need.

 

In America, under Democrats, the amputee would have probable have been taken care of if he promised to vote for Democrats.

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The UK. I'm a Brit. Present whatever articles you like. I live it and have worked in most parts of the NHS at different times.

I've got a good friend who spent a considerable amount of time in the UK. He's experienced British health care, and I trust him when he says the health care system in the UK is far superior to America's for-profit injury and illness treatment industry. On more than one occasion while across the pond, he's had someone ask him, "What't wrong with you dumb Americans anyway?", in regard to health care.

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Maybe you are reading the Daily Mail?

Yes, and The Guardian, The Telegraph, the BBC and others...

So why are your personal accounts, different from what we are told by your news?

Edit: I just looked up hip replacements at my local hospital The waiting time is 8 weeks. The info is available online and I can go where it's fastest. What is it near you?

What postal code? I'd like to look myself.

 

On edit, I've gone to this webpage describing the "rights" of NHS patients. 18 Weeks.

But it appears that's just a guideline and there is nothing you can do if it is exceeded.

I was referred for orthapedic surgery on 1/05/2013, following a consultation with a Specialist at Congleton Hospital.

I was informed that the waiting time for treatment was 18 weeks, as was duly advertised on notices in the clinic, which took it to 13/09/2013.

Within days I received an appointment for a Pre-Op Assessment at MDGH, which I had in early June, and was asked by the Nurse if I had been given a date for the operation.

This week having heard nothing from the Hospital, I telephoned the patient booking line, to ask if a date had been scheduled for me, (as I have to stop some of my medication 2/3 weeks prior to Surgery, which MDGH are aware of).

I was advised my scheduled date was 09/11/2013, because the Conultants' Annual Leave has to be added on! This takes it to 25 weeks! and when I pointed it out to the lady I was talking to, she went quiet for a few seconds, and then advised me they would be in touch before then!!

I await with hopeful anticipation that I will receive an earlier date soon!

And this gentleman didn't say how long it took him to see a specialist.

 

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It depends on what you need.

 

Yes, for some elective surgery, waiting times need to come down. For stuff you need now, you don't generally wait. It isn't perfect, but it's good.

 

Edit: I just looked up hip replacements at my local hospital The waiting time is 8 weeks. The info is available online and I can go where it's fastest. What is it near you?

 

The US doesn't collect data on wait times. Generally it's the amount of time the surgeon needs to verify you're insurance will cover it. I was just basing it on overall wait times. A Brit is four times as likely to have to wait four months or more for an elective surgery. Your country rations based on need, my country rations based on economics. It's a matter of opinion which is the better way.

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Socialized Medicine

 

Progressives, Liberals, Atheists and Democrats think Obamacare (Socialized Medicine) can be made to work in America because it seems to work in other socialized nations.

 

Back in 2009, when Obamacare was being discussed, PBS did a program comparing the health care systems of many nations. The phrases I heard most often in the discussion were "price controls" and "reduced expectations".

 

Can "price controls" and "reduced expectations" work in America when there is a Democratic Party that will offer anything to get elected then steal from the responsible to give to the irresponsible.

 

America was built on freedom, the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. Safety nets that try to avoid failure mean reduced freedom for all. Use to, you could ride your motor cycle anyway you wanted, but then there were a lot of accidents so the government mandated helmets.

 

The reality is safety nets or freedom, they cannot co-exist.

 

The only insurance a biker should be required to have is a clean up and burial insurance.

 

In most socialized nations, people wait in long lines to see a doctor, so they don't bother. My understanding is that there is no such thing as an emergency room because you have to see a doctor first. Also, you don't really get to see a doctor, until you have seen a nurse practitioner.

 

Because of "price controls" and "reduced expectations", most wealthy people come to America for health care.

well sonny, your whole problem is you grabbed every returd lie, and actually believe their chit blindly instead of researching for truth. You do that with your religion as well. I guess some fks are hopeless. Well that makes sense. Obama represents hope, so returds, cons, perverts & Christians must represent hopelessness.

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You worked in most parts of the NHS, well that explains things.

 

I liked the story of the amputee that wanted the NHS to pay a prostitute to come service him as a health need.

 

In America, under Democrats, the amputee would have probable have been taken care of if he promised to vote for Democrats.

if you ever doubted that clitty is a luna-fukkn-tic... /\ there it is. there are lots of people that are this stupid around the world, but the US seems to be cornering the market

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You're right. It more correct to describe the connection between this administration and the corporate world as fascism. Where if you disagree with the government, they will turn their surveillance on you, direct your phone and health care providers to provide them information about your actions, and remove your rights if they don't like what you are doing.I don't believe most democrats want to improve our country. They want to destroy what made our country great, and replace it with a nanny state which cedes personal responsibility to the government in exchange for being "taken care of". Of course it's passed off as "caring" for the less fortunate, as you've done here, but in reality you just want someone else to pay for your government goodies.

 

 

 

LINK

 

 

 

This has been debunked so many times it has track marks on it's back. The people doing the ranking prefer socialized care, so the targets are skewed in that ranking.

LINK

 

 

We have a shorter life expectancy because we sit on our asses watching TV at night, eating ice cream, potato chips and candy, not because our healthcare system is worse. And our infant mortality rate is higher because we try to save every baby born, instead of discarding them, so in this case you penalize our healthcare system for being better and trying to save more babies.

 

 

 

LINK

 

 

 

The fact is that the majority of medical breakthroughs in care, medicine, treatment and devices come from our country BECAUSE of our healthcare system, not in spite of it.

 

LINK

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Yes, and The Guardian, The Telegraph, the BBC and others...

So why are your personal accounts, different from what we are told by your news?

What postal code? I'd like to look myself.

 

On edit, I've gone to this webpage describing the "rights" of NHS patients. 18 Weeks.

But it appears that's just a guideline and there is nothing you can do if it is exceeded.

I was referred for orthapedic surgery on 1/05/2013, following a consultation with a Specialist at Congleton Hospital.

I was informed that the waiting time for treatment was 18 weeks, as was duly advertised on notices in the clinic, which took it to 13/09/2013.

Within days I received an appointment for a Pre-Op Assessment at MDGH, which I had in early June, and was asked by the Nurse if I had been given a date for the operation.

This week having heard nothing from the Hospital, I telephoned the patient booking line, to ask if a date had been scheduled for me, (as I have to stop some of my medication 2/3 weeks prior to Surgery, which MDGH are aware of).

I was advised my scheduled date was 09/11/2013, because the Conultants' Annual Leave has to be added on! This takes it to 25 weeks! and when I pointed it out to the lady I was talking to, she went quiet for a few seconds, and then advised me they would be in touch before then!!

I await with hopeful anticipation that I will receive an earlier date soon!

And this gentleman didn't say how long it took him to see a specialist.

 

 

The link is here: http://www.nhs.uk/Service-Search/Hospital/Reading/Results/5/-0.974/51.453/7/17598?distance=25

 

The Royal Berkshire is my nearest hospital.

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Obamacare is a socialist system when the government pays for those that cannot pay, by stealing from the responsible to give to the irresponsible.

LINK

 

The America that I love is very different from the America you love (or want).

 

People in this country should be left to live on the streets, or die, sick in their homes if their problem is due to bad choices they make.

IS THAT WHAT YOUR GOD SAYS, OR YOU MOSES?

 

If the top 1% of income holders control the majority of this country's wealth got their wealth in an illegal manner they should be prosecuted for the crime they committed.

 

Safety nets encourage risky behavior.

NO SAFETY NET ENCOURAGES RICKY BEHAVIOR, LIKE BACK ALLEY ABORTIONS YOU STUPID FK!!!!

 

The alternative to Socialized Medicine is Christianity.

YOU LOST THAT BATTLE HEATHEN, AND ARE ARGUING AGAINST IT!!

 

In Socialism you give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, but with Christianity, you teach a man to fish and he feeds himself forever.

AND WHAT DID JESUS DO YOU STUPID FK????

 

In Socialism you give a woman a fish and she will bring back another illegitimate child to be fed, but with Christianity, you teach a woman how to fish and she will find a husband that will feed her and the child.

AND WHAT DID JESUS DO YOU STUPID FK!!! THIS MOTHER-FK CALLS HIMSELF A CHRISTIAN!!!!! LMAO!!

 

Capitalism is cruel in the short term, but provides for long term survival of the society.

AS SLAVES WITH A COMPANY STORE, YES!!!

 

Socialism is short term relief, but a long term disaster because it creates a never ending dependency.

LINK

 

What country is this?

 

If it is Canada then I can present a large number of articles that present the problems with the health care system in Canada.

THE ONLY THING YOU CAN PRESENT IS YOUR ASSHOLE FOR A FKING RETURD REAMING AROUND HERE!!!

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The US doesn't collect data on wait times. Generally it's the amount of time the surgeon needs to verify you're insurance will cover it. I was just basing it on overall wait times. A Brit is four times as likely to have to wait four months or more for an elective surgery. Your country rations based on need, my country rations based on economics. It's a matter of opinion which is the better way.

 

There is always private insurance available (much cheaper, too - because of the NHS). Also, NHS patients can go to private hospitals.

 

When I worked for other people (I run my own company now) I would have free health insurance as a benefit - I was taxed on that, though. The value? A few hundred pounds a year. I also worked briefly for the largest private health insurer here in the UK (as a consultant). For anything significant, people were advised to use the NHS. You see the same doctors anyway and receive the same treatment.

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Yes, and The Guardian, The Telegraph, the BBC and others...

So why are your personal accounts, different from what we are told by your news

 

Not knowing what links you are looking at, I can only assume it comes back to your perceptions a to what they mean. People care about healthcare and about the NHS. Nobody would give it up.

 

We want it to be as good as it can be. We gather a lot of data on performance. Anything that looks as if it could use improvement will be picked up and people will want to improve it.

 

In the absence of that data, all would be quiet. Nobody would know what needs improvement. All would look fine. It's a good thing.

 

It doesn't mean we don't like the NHS. If we did, we'd all be rushing to private insurance. However, the market for private healthcare has been suffering in the last few years.

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Seeing a GP is one thing. The UK has document longer wait times for specialists, lab work, and surgeries. If you want a prescription seeing a GP is the way to go. If you actually want something fixed you need to see a specialist.

Longer wait times compared to what?

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Not knowing what links you are looking at, I can only assume it comes back to your perceptions a to what they mean. People care about healthcare and about the NHS. Nobody would give it up.

 

We want it to be as good as it can be. We gather a lot of data on performance. Anything that looks as if it could use improvement will be picked up and people will want to improve it.

 

In the absence of that data, all would be quiet. Nobody would know what needs improvement. All would look fine. It's a good thing.

 

It doesn't mean we don't like the NHS. If we did, we'd all be rushing to private insurance. However, the market for private healthcare has been suffering in the last few years.

Interesting that you chose not to provide a postal code, so I could verify your waiting time claims.

That being said, news reports also contradict your claims about the private insurance market suffering.

NHS bill: goodbye comprehensive healthcare, hello private insurance
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Interesting that you chose not to provide a postal code, so I could verify your waiting time claims.

That being said, news reports also contradict your claims about the private insurance market suffering.

NHS bill: goodbye comprehensive healthcare, hello private insurance

 

 

A postal code would take you right to my house. I'm not that stupid. Just type in "Reading", as I had done for you. You could also use RG1.

 

 

The article was about the conservative goernment messing around with the NHS, which is unpopular. If you want to see what's been heppening to the market, look at the market ..

 

http://store.mintel.com/private-medical-insurance-and-healthcare-cash-plans-uk-september-2012?cookie_test=true

 

http://www.passport2health.co.uk/sites/default/files/passport2health-thought-leadership-report.pdf

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/29/private-healthcare-market-competition-commission

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