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Some very good advice for all the athiests!


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Yes, the bible is specific about right and wrong..

 

How does atheism determine right and wrong?

Really? Well, then, let me ask you a question.

 

If I need new tires, do I have to get all four or can I just get two new ones for the front axel?

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Yes, the bible is specific about right and wrong..

 

How does atheism determine right and wrong?

 

You are operating under the assumption that christianity invented "good" and "right and wrong". The idea of what good is is largely relative and a condition of time and place. As well, the idea of "good" was around long before christianity.

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Really? Well, then, let me ask you a question.

 

If I need new tires, do I have to get all four or can I just get two new ones for the front axel?

Do you need 4 tires or 2?

 

 

You are operating under the assumption that christianity invented "good" and "right and wrong". The idea of what good is is largely relative and a condition of time and place. As well, the idea of "good" was around long before christianity.

Yes, but Christianity has a specific explanation for why all humanity knows right from wrong.

 

I am operating under the assumption that God invented right and wrong.

 

I am curious about what the atheist believes

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So when are you going to start living like there's a God? You don't live like that now. Not the God of Christianity, certainly. You don't even know what a Christian is, for Pete's sake.

So MANY frauds seem to think Jesus thought the best folks in town were the Scribes and Pharisee and the Money Changers in the temple. I guess they missed the POINT.

 

Hard to picture a God so VAIN..insecure..PETTY...HE/She/In needs my FLATTERY or affirmation or begging for favors.

If being a GOOD PERSON is worth less than a sheeplike SUBSCRIPTION to some cult....too bad. I'll deal wih that later.

 

 

...good lord, did I tell you how to live? Read the sign and make up your mind, you fool!

Okay...so your meaning was not as it seemed? Go ahead...explain for us.
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Do you need 4 tires or 2?

 

Yes, but Christianity has a specific explanation for why all humanity knows right from wrong.

 

I am operating under the assumption that God invented right and wrong.

 

I am curious about what the atheist believes

 

As an atheist I think that good is a social construct based on the time and place of a society. There is no universal good and all one has to do is study human history and even our modern interpretation to understand that "good" constantly changes. Religions attempt to monopolize and literally chisel right and wrong in stone yet they have been perpetual late-comers to the social construct of good.

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As an atheist I think that good is a social construct based on the time and place of a society. There is no universal good and all one has to do is study human history and even our modern interpretation to understand that "good" constantly changes. Religions attempt to monopolize and literally chisel right and wrong in stone yet they have been perpetual late-comers to the social construct of good.

I will be the first to admit that religion has caused much damage to humanity throughout history, but I will not agree that what was done was biblical. War is about money, and religion has been used as a means to that end.

 

 

Are you saying it was moral for nazi's to kill the handicapped because of their society time and place?

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Are you saying it was moral for nazi's to kill the handicapped because of their society time and place?

 

It is irrelevant what I think but they thought it was a great idea. Hows bout the inquisition? Witch trials? The Crusades? Jihad?

 

You threw "moral" in there which is a loaded religious term and is not really bearing on the OP.

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And Atheists do good things because we're good people. We don't need an excuse.

like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Yep. Real good people!!!!! Some estimates have them at 100 million killed.

 

How many people did the Christian kill in the same period????

 

Foolish atheists. This is a major flaw in Atheism. Christians have rules from God but Atheists have none but what they what to have. It changes from person to person and when a person like Mao gets in charge they feel it is OK to kill anyone against them. Their personal rules.

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like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. Yep. Real good people!!!!! Some estimates have them at 100 million killed.

 

How many people did the Christian kill in the same period????

 

Foolish atheists. This is a major flaw in Atheism. Christians have rules from God but Atheists have none but what they what to have. It changes from person to person and when a person like Mao gets in charge they feel it is OK to kill anyone against them. Their personal rules.

 

Being a mass murderer has about zero to do with one's religion. Shall we start compiling a list of Christian mass murderers for you?

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You are operating under the assumption that christianity invented "good" and "right and wrong". The idea of what good is is largely relative and a condition of time and place. As well, the idea of "good" was around long before christianity.

You ignore the Torah was written by Moses. In the time of Abraham most groups in Mesopotamia were thugs. Are you talking about them? How about going down to Moses and the Exodus. The people around Israel were thugs as well. Moses got the 10 Commandments from God and other rules as well. Are you talking about this?

 

You obviously do not know your early history.

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Maybe you can answer the question since nubber can't.. How is right and wrong determined from the atheist's perspective?

 

You are assuming that there is a concrete answer just like the bible gives. You say I can't answer the the question but I just can't give you the answer you want.

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Do you need 4 tires or 2?

 

Yes, but Christianity has a specific explanation for why all humanity knows right from wrong.

 

I am operating under the assumption that God invented right and wrong.

 

I am curious about what the atheist believes

Atheists believe in a DEFINITE ABSENCE of any DEITY.

However when the underinformed say " ATHEIST" they inevitably mean AGNOSTIC. One can NOT believe...in BELIEVING and be Agnostic. One can say "I don't know" or I don't CARE" and be AGNOSTIC. One can say..whatever is...is fine with me...and be AGNOSTIC. Atheist is a BELIEF..an absolute CHOICE and for every true ATHEIST...there's 100-1000 AGNOSTICS....and 10 or 50 of those probably think they ARE Atheists.

 

Stuff like KNOWLEDGE...truth..compassion...Reason...integrity...patience....are all UNIVERSAL human values because they WORK in a social context. You can be most any religion or NONE and that stuff...is as valid.

As HUMANS we usually learn early that what WORKS is a plus. Alas...we don't ALL figure out that simple point.

 

If I DECLARE myself a christian and am EVIL...is that better than being a GOOD perso and agnostic?

How about if I do like so many others do...INVENT my OWN religion? Maybe mine is the ONE that "nailed it" ?

 

Wat if God only likes the Amish? Won't THAT be a hoot?

 

 

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Yes, the bible is specific about right and wrong..

 

How does atheism determine right and wrong?

the way people always determined right from wrong , by socially accepted actions . long before the bible .
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You are assuming that there is a concrete answer just like the bible gives. You say I can't answer the the question but I just can't give you the answer you want.

Your answer was that it is determined by society. Given that definition, nazis were right to kill handicapped people.

 

I am saying that murder, theft, etc are wrong because they are moral laws.

 

Your position, as I understand it, seems very dangerous.

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You ignore the Torah was written by Moses. In the time of Abraham most groups in Mesopotamia were thugs. Are you talking about them? How about going down to Moses and the Exodus. The people around Israel were thugs as well. Moses got the 10 Commandments from God and other rules as well. Are you talking about this?

 

You obviously do not know your early history.

 

Apple and oranges chief. Have any sources that prove that Mesopotamians were all thugs and were all whipped into shape by Moses (other than biased religious texts of course). You are questioning my historical knowledge yet you cite Moses and the ten commandments story? Seriously?

 

My degree is in history...yours?

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the way people always determined right from wrong , by socially accepted actions . long before the bible .

I am not disagreeing with you. I am asking where these socially accepted actions originate?

 

From what I have read from atheists on the matter, we are all dancing to the tune of our DNA so there is nothing that isn't permissible, even murder.

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Your answer was that it is determined by society. Given that definition, nazis were right to kill handicapped people.

My opinion? Of course it was wrong but they did not think it was wrong and that is why they were ok with doing it. According to them it was the best thing for their people. I think it is sick but that doesn't change a thing does it?

 

I am saying that murder, theft, etc are wrong because they are moral laws.

Morality is a religious construct and therefore can not be laws. Is it wrong to steal to feed your starving children? Once you start making exceptions they are no longer laws.

Your position, as I understand it, seems very dangerous.

 

You are asking for principals to operate on which is distinctly different that what has historically been "good".

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My opinion? Of course it was wrong but they did not think it was wrong and that is why they were ok with doing it. According to them it was the best thing for their people. I think it is sick but that doesn't change a thing does it?

 

Morality is a religious construct and therefore can not be laws. Is it wrong to steal to feed your starving children? Once you start making exceptions they are no longer laws.

 

You are asking for principals to operate on which is distinctly different that what has historically been "good".

Theft is wrong even if it is to feed your children, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't do it.

 

Social rules of conduct are ethics.. Morality is the individual's belief of what is right and wrong. Do you think murder is wrong because society thinks it is wrong or because it is your personal belief?

 

 

 

As for nazis murdering the handicapped, I would guess that the majority of the people probably didnt know, and if they did, they would know that it is wrong, even if society deemed it ethical.

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Theft is wrong even if it is to feed your children, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't do it.

 

Social rules of conduct are ethics.. Morality is the individual's belief of what is right and wrong. Do you think murder is wrong because society thinks it is wrong or because it is your personal belief?

Both actually.

 

I believe it is wrong largely based on the golden rule. In purely objective, existential, and in terms of mortality, it is a benign act and a murderer will only be judged based on the beliefs of the murderer's respective society.

 

 

As for nazis murdering the handicapped, I would guess that the majority of the people probably didnt know, and if they did, they would know that it is wrong, even if society deemed it ethical.

 

The more you think on this the more I hope you see my point. Once all religious ideas and absolutes are removed the definition of what is good becomes a product of society and changes based on what is best for any given society (real or perceived) at any given time.

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As an atheist I think that good is a social construct based on the time and place of a society. There is no universal good and all one has to do is study human history and even our modern interpretation to understand that "good" constantly changes. Religions attempt to monopolize and literally chisel right and wrong in stone yet they have been perpetual late-comers to the social construct of good.

Good...does not change a lot...but the perception shifts a bit. A Culture can be EVIL and nasty and CLAIM all that is "good" but over time it's always a big blunder.

 

Every day I'm on the porch having a cigarette and maybe coffee..a beer and I see about 30 houses on the block. Aside from the sweet old ladies across the street I know nobodies NAME...religion..POLITICS. I can recognizes maybe half those neighbors based on the house or the car they drive or some other thing...several I HAVE talked to a bit...now and then. However, I can't say I really KNOW them...aside from none ever has been NASTY to me in any way. I can't sort them by religion...there's no obvious differences I see.

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When Emperor Constantine made them an offer and the Christians went corporate, the bishops made a lot of things "disappear" from the Bible. Such as Deism......

Remember the Cathars? They were deists, until the church establishment exterminated them........ lots of rich history there......

And as for atheists, as they have no "god" to boss them around, they are wont to indulge in something called ETHICS. We could use a lot more of that.

What determines who is and who is not a Christian is in the different creeds that were developed to fight different heresies.

 

From oldest to newest.

 

The Apostles Creed

The Nicene Creed

The Chalcedonian Creed

 

http://christianityinview.com/creeds.html

 

The creeds define the core beliefs that makes a person who believe them using the definitions in the Bible a Christian. The problem is some religions redefine some words and then call themselves Christians. Mormons for example. Deists and Chathars did not adhere to these creeds. The Creeds are taken from many verses in the Bible. The central beliefs is who Jesus is, what he did, and what the consequences of that is.

 

I just love the way atheists love to rewrite history. They love to turn the Council of Nicaea into something it was not. Constantine called the council to resolve an issue that was dividing the Church. The original version of the Nicene Creed was the result. He also asked them to set the standard of what the canon of the bible was. They took what the early bishops had considered canon. By the end of the first century the books were recognized but all locations did not have them. By the end of the second century all locations had the full canon. That was the list that was given to Constantine and he had scribes make copies and sent them to all of the Bishops.

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Good...does not change a lot...but the perception shifts a bit. A Culture can be EVIL and nasty and CLAIM all that is "good" but over time it's always a big blunder.

These are common dispositions/biases known as modernism and presentism. In other words hindsight is 20/20 (but only through the lens of one's own current society).

 

Every day I'm on the porch having a cigarette and maybe coffee..a beer and I see about 30 houses on the block. Aside from the sweet old ladies across the street I know nobodies NAME...religion..POLITICS. I can recognizes maybe half those neighbors based on the house or the car they drive or some other thing...several I HAVE talked to a bit...now and then. However, I can't say I really KNOW them...aside from none ever has been NASTY to me in any way. I can't sort them by religion...there's no obvious differences I see.

 

Not sure where you are going with this...

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