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I No Longer Vote For Democrats!

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I no longer vote for Democrats!

 

For over a half century I voting for Democrats in every election and failed to vote within very few primary elections. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2009.

 

I cannot condone Democrats’ cowardness prior to the 2010 elections. They refrained from arguing federal budget and tax issues on the floors of congress. Democrats could at very least forced the Republicans to filibuster and at publicly acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions.

Republicans were winners in 2009 and much further improved their position in 2010 because Democratic leadership acquiesced and surrendered rather than diligently opposing the Tea Party. The Tea party won in 2009 and gained much more in 2010.

 

For over a half century I voting for Democrats in every election and failed to vote within very few primary elections. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2009. Prior to the 2010 election I changed my registration from Democrat to Green Party.

 

[i do not oppose Green Party platforms but I do not share their priorities].

If there is no Green Party candidate for a particular office, I do not cast a vote for that office. Unfortunately I have no superior method to express my displeasure with Democratic Party leadership. I do not vote on the Democratic line of a ballot and if there’s no Green Party candidate, I refrain from voting in that particular election.

 

I have not forgiven Democratic leadership for their 2013 hand shake agreement. The Democrats had a one day window to require that filibusters physically hold the senate floor and actually halt almost all U.S. senate floor votes during the entire duration of the filibuster. In such a case it becomes physically eroding and politically more inconvenient and of some political risk to the filibustering party. . They must convince voters that they’re justified to prevent the U.S. Senate from voting on the particular issue at hand and upon almost anything else. That would and should be a heavy political burden not to be seriously considered.

 

[if the Democrats retain their U.S. Senate majority in the 2014 elections, that will be their next window of opportunity to hold filibusters’ responsible for their mischief].

 

I remain a populist. I won’t vote for Democrats until the parties’ leaders return the party to its populist heritage.

 

Respectfully, Supposn

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I'm not a fan of filibusters, even if they're done in support of my concerns like the recent drone-oriented filibuster.

 

But I'm not following you on why you're dissatisfied with the democratic party. The republican gains in 2009 and 2010 aren't sustained, and are more like the "battle of the bulge" of WWII....a last push before they have to acknowledge they are done. I'm surprised you're not more disappointed that the democratic Senate didn't propose a budget for almost 4 years. That wasn't because of any republicans....it was just them.

 

If you're a populist in the authentic sense, I do think you have legit misgivings...mostly in the vein that they're every bit as inclined to indebt the nation and give it all to Wall St. and absolutely ignore regular folks as republicans are. The divergence of the economic realities of Wall St. and Main St. are symptoms of "liquidity injections" and bailouts...(as well as Fed policy, but the Fed doesn't take orders from the president or congress)

 

The U.S. citizen fighting to keep their homes got no bailouts. They got a defunct plan for mortgage restructuring that almost no one was eligible for and those who were weren't helped by it. The people got nothing......from the democrats. (or republicans, but that wasn't to be expected)

 

Sadly, and I hate to admit it...the only time I got a check in the mail from the federal government for economic stimulus purposes during a recession was from Bush, when he increased the child tax credit and made it retro-active from the previous year.

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Posted · Hidden by lostphoenix, April 16, 2013 - troll
Hidden by lostphoenix, April 16, 2013 - troll

Oh no! How will democrats win without you?!?!?!

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I'm also no longer voting for Democrats --

 

I'm not familiar with all the details of the Green Party Platform, but I will say that the

Platform which Ralph Nader wrote and which he ran on when he ran for the presidency

in 2000 was so unbelievably wonderful it was like being in another world reading it.

It truly represented JUSTICE.

 

As a counter to that, I have to say that even beyond the filthy example of 2000 by the

gang of 5 on the Supreme Court, the decisions by the 5 RW'ers have been the very

opposite of justice.

 

And, it doesn't look much like we have any real liberals in Obama's two appointments?

They also look very corporate/fascist. Not of course to the level of the RW fanatacism

of Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts -- or Kennedy when he joinds them. But none the

less not judges I would consider liberal.

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Of course, there are a number of other liberal parties than one can choose from if one is disaffected. The newly formed Justice Party and the Working Families Party impress me a lot. And of course, there are a number of Socialist Parties which fielded Presidential candidates in the Peace and Freedom Party primary.

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I try to vote for humans.

for example I would seriously consider chris christie were he to run.

 

likely he would have to move to the right to get that nomination . which would in turn kill any consideration i might have

 

christie today however...I think he could do a decent job.

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I no longer vote for Democrats!

 

For over a half century I voting for Democrats in every election and failed to vote within very few primary elections. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2009.

 

I cannot condone Democrats’ cowardness prior to the 2010 elections. They refrained from arguing federal budget and tax issues on the floors of congress. Democrats could at very least forced the Republicans to filibuster and at publicly acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions.

Republicans were winners in 2009 and much further improved their position in 2010 because Democratic leadership acquiesced and surrendered rather than diligently opposing the Tea Party. The Tea party won in 2009 and gained much more in 2010.

 

For over a half century I voting for Democrats in every election and failed to vote within very few primary elections. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2009. Prior to the 2010 election I changed my registration from Democrat to Green Party.

 

[i do not oppose Green Party platforms but I do not share their priorities].

If there is no Green Party candidate for a particular office, I do not cast a vote for that office. Unfortunately I have no superior method to express my displeasure with Democratic Party leadership. I do not vote on the Democratic line of a ballot and if there’s no Green Party candidate, I refrain from voting in that particular election.

 

I have not forgiven Democratic leadership for their 2013 hand shake agreement. The Democrats had a one day window to require that filibusters physically hold the senate floor and actually halt almost all U.S. senate floor votes during the entire duration of the filibuster. In such a case it becomes physically eroding and politically more inconvenient and of some political risk to the filibustering party. . They must convince voters that they’re justified to prevent the U.S. Senate from voting on the particular issue at hand and upon almost anything else. That would and should be a heavy political burden not to be seriously considered.

 

[if the Democrats retain their U.S. Senate majority in the 2014 elections, that will be their next window of opportunity to hold filibusters’ responsible for their mischief].

 

I remain a populist. I won’t vote for Democrats until the parties’ leaders return the party to its populist heritage.

 

Respectfully, Supposn

 

I can empathize somewhat with your sentiments, but how do you defeat the $ in the teaparty?

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I'm not American but I'm interested in US politics. I'm quite interested to hear what most liberals think about him. I must say as an Obama supporter in 08, it was quite painful watching him become everything I hoped he wasn't. I think liberals in the US are in an awkward position, whereby not voting for Obama or whoever takes his place, means a much worse republican gets in. But at the same time, democrats might never be forced to the left if people keep voting for them, on the basis that they're the lesser of two evils. The Ralph Naders of the world might cost democrats the presidency, but at least it would send a message to the party.

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I felt very much opposed to the Democratic party after Clinton. I really really liked Ralph Nader and his logic and bravery. Carter wasn't a fool. He had a bad go, mostly due to his own party. Still, he got a lot right.

Obama, well, he is the perfect guy if --- and that if is not likely, people push hard for alternative energy, closure of the Guantanamo Detention camp/ a comprehensive immigration reform bill/ fiscal prosperity/Wall Street reform/ a Senate free from filibuster chicanery/

an end to the Drone's/ and a real sense of what it means to restore SS/Medicare and - fix our broken school system (especially where it's needed most).

When the Tea Party came along, the word was officially - we aren't Republicans. They were of course. They were the worst far Right of the Republican - not the old Republican of yesteryear which held a good degree of dignity and common sense/ instead they were of the crazy zealot kind that back in the day was an embarrassment. This shifted the political paradigm even more, one that had been already moved right of Center. Already, many of the old dems, were moderate at best. The left was pretty much dried up. The Greens, Nader and what ever party he would join into was too small, outside mainstream, as the media labeled him - no chance.

Nader lamented - there isn't any difference between the parties and it was obvious, all too obvious. Those who voted for him in 1999 were labeled as, the fools who let GWB win.

In 2008 - the Republicans were clearly kicked out. In 2010 - a more far-right, nuttier, and unapologetic group was then let back in.

The T party was harsh towards Obama from the get go when they came out of the woodwork in 2009/ even before Obama took office he was a left-wing Socialist/ Muslim from another country/ Nazi --- who was anti Christian. He was going to go for all your guns spouted the NRA. Ammo sales sure enough, went off the charts.

The malice towards Wall Street --- where was that? Where was the outrage, the needed reforms after it caused our banking system

to bite the dust and stole all the pensions/ 401 K's to tank?

 

No - what good will it do to trust a Democrat anymore? There's no movement there. No leadership. No speaking truth to power no matter what!

 

Yeah, if --- if people would try to become more informed. If people would not use CNN or FOX or even the major Networks or the ridiculously slanted on-line bull shit news journals to be their major source for information.

If - they would then demand what is only common sense from their elected government officials --- well, then Obama would be the perfect president to sign good legislation into law. But I can completely understand someone saying to themselves - if only is a long shot at best/ more likely, it's a fairy tale.

 

Peace!

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Health issues aside, I believe Christie is a rude bully and I think that is the last thing we need at the national level.

I try to vote for humans.

for example I would seriously consider chris christie were he to run.

 

likely he would have to move to the right to get that nomination . which would in turn kill any consideration i might have

 

christie today however...I think he could do a decent job.

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I'm not American but I'm interested in US politics. I'm quite interested to hear what most liberals think about him. I must say as an Obama supporter in 08, it was quite painful watching him become everything I hoped he wasn't. I think liberals in the US are in an awkward position, whereby not voting for Obama or whoever takes his place, means a much worse republican gets in. But at the same time, democrats might never be forced to the left if people keep voting for them, on the basis that they're the lesser of two evils. The Ralph Naders of the world might cost democrats the presidency, but at least it would send a message to the party.

 

You have stated the conundrum very well.

 

The two party system is so entrenched in the U.S. that no other party stands a chance. I have voted the Working Families Party and Ralph Nader knowing it was only a dream. The two party conundrum is, when you vote for a left wing alternative to the mainstream Democratic candidate you make it that much more possible for the Republicans to wreak havoc on the Nation for the benefit of an uber-wealthy few. But increasingly, Democratic politicians are taking the default position 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em'

 

I would never vote for a Republican moderate like Chris Christie. Despite his moderate stances on some issues and his willingness to reach across the isle, he has promoted plutocracy with anti-labor and pro-capital legislation.

 

My number one concern is stopping the flow of money upwards and restoring equal wealth distribution. Repeal Taft-Hartley and "right to work" laws. Number two is disengaging from unecessary foreign wars and using the resources to do things like convert to renewable energy sources and rebuild/repair the infrastructure. Change the emphasis from the destructive to the constructive.

 

But, Corporate Personhood and Citizens United are making it possible for Big Money to dominate both parties. Legalized bribery is corrupting the entire system.

 

The bottom line is; I hold my nose and still vote Democrat.

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A vote for Christie would be a vote for the Tea Party because the pressure on a republican president to bend to their will would be irresistible. How else could he get anything done? If he tried to defy them, the backlash would be incredible. We would probably see the same effort the republicans attempted to make Obama a one term president, only this time the target would be one of their own.. We might even see a second republican or even a third party candidate in the 2020 election.

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I would not vote for a Republican, unless whoever they were denounced the actions of the Republican party as it now stands.

I vote, every time, in every election, state, local, or national, you should too.

I know, we all do, it's not working as well as any would like, it is the major, and not the minor right, in a true democracy, the act of voting is.

Take the Democrats, please... as a true progressive like Mark Twain would say... It's true, they are a mixture of bull, doggy doo doo,

the worst horrid specimens, with friends like them, who needs enemies???

Nader is right about a lot of things, he has a never quit telling the truth in all he does, more voices and real choices, not bull, is what we need.

 

Green Party, Jill Stein, who got the support of Noam Chomsky, and her running mate Cheri Honkala, who is part Cheyenne Native American, and speaks for all women, would be great for everyone's rights.

 

Democracy, Ecology, Peace, Social Justice; we all should try to begin to push forward these basic tenants - and we should try to understand where we are now, what's not right, the current market structure, that serves only the people at the top, so that we all come to know about its inefficient and unsustainable realities - there's really no better place to start!

 

Plain truth is the first battle we need to win is with the 2 party system we have now. You can't even get a debate where the Greens, or any other populace or progressive entity can actually speak alongside the two kings in a televised presidential debate. That's the first battle we need to win. That's what Nader tried to change. The debates are full of bull --- this is true in Senate and Congressional elections for the most part as well.

 

Progress in this country is stymied by a horrid political system as it stands now. Wedge issues to divide

the masses, power with money, a million dollars says a lot when it comes from one individual...

 

 

Peace!

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A few years ago I would have said,"I no longer vote for Republicans," though I would have been more fair to say "All" republicans as I did for yhears.

 

Who was it who said,"Wise man will change his mind,a fool,never."?

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You have stated the conundrum very well.

 

The two party system is so entrenched in the U.S. that no other party stands a chance. I have voted the Working Families Party and Ralph Nader knowing it was only a dream. The two party conundrum is, when you vote for a left wing alternative to the mainstream Democratic candidate you make it that much more possible for the Republicans to wreak havoc on the Nation for the benefit of an uber-wealthy few. But increasingly, Democratic politicians are taking the default position 'If you can't beat 'em, join 'em'

 

I would never vote for a Republican moderate like Chris Christie. Despite his moderate stances on some issues and his willingness to reach across the isle, he has promoted plutocracy with anti-labor and pro-capital legislation.

 

My number one concern is stopping the flow of money upwards and restoring equal wealth distribution. Repeal Taft-Hartley and "right to work" laws. Number two is disengaging from unecessary foreign wars and using the resources to do things like convert to renewable energy sources and rebuild/repair the infrastructure. Change the emphasis from the destructive to the constructive.

 

But, Corporate Personhood and Citizens United are making it possible for Big Money to dominate both parties. Legalized bribery is corrupting the entire system.

 

The bottom line is; I hold my nose and still vote Democrat.

 

I am just curious how voting for the lesser of two evils has worked out for the US....it seems the trajectory the US is on remains the same no matter which party gets in...both parties are beholden to the SAME puppet masters.....the differences are mostly in the rhetoric really (which isnt a meaningful difference).

 

At this point I think the US should completely BOYCOTT the entire election process, its not at all democratic and they are only giving you a choice between different faces...which puppet do you want? They are controlled by the same people SO, it doesnt truly matter which party gets in.

 

I think the only thing that more folks voting for republicans signify is that they can move a bit faster in the same ultra right wing corporate friendly direction they are already moving in.

 

Ultimately, maybe the best course is to go for it...let it go right wing as possible, stop all aid and see how fast that system goes down in flames......this trickle and acceptance of crumbs isnt getting the country anywhere.

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I am just curious how voting for the lesser of two evils has worked out for the US....it seems the trajectory the US is on remains the same no matter which party gets in...both parties are beholden to the SAME puppet masters

Yes, it's true elected officials in both parties take legalized bribes from Big Interests in order to stay in office. But many Democratic senators and congressmen get a large proportion of their funding from small donors; ordinary people like me. They need some big donors but are less beholden to them. Republican lawmakers are far more locked into dependence on their corporate and ultra-rich masters.

 

There are still Liberal lawmakers who I believe cast their votes for the interests of ordinary people. The website http://thatsmycongress.com/senate/ lists senators by voting score. There are many more in the House of Representatives. But you are correct, they are getting fewer and the system continues to drift to the political right.

 

Up until the election of FDR in 1933, the system was fixed for the rich and big business. Then as now, both parties were responsible.

 

The FDR years saw an increase in unions and the middle class along with regulation and proportional taxation of big business and the rich. Roosevelt died in 1945 but his ideas had momentum. The percentage of prosperous middle class wage earners peaked in the 1960s and 70s and continued well into the 1990s The election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 marked the beginning of policies which were to cause the destruction of the middle class years later. That destruction is now nearly complete.

.....the differences are mostly in the rhetoric really (which isnt a meaningful difference).

This is only partially true, otherwise we would have seen the disintigration of the Social Safety Net by now. A shrinking group of Liberal, Democratic lawmakers are holding back the tide.

 

 

At this point I think the US should completely BOYCOTT the entire election process, its not at all democratic and they are only giving you a choice between different faces...which puppet do you want? They are controlled by the same people SO, it doesnt truly matter which party gets in.

As a practical matter, I doubt it will happen.

 

The problem is too little participation in the Democratic process, not too much. Studies have shown time and again that the vast majority of eligable U.S. voters are of Liberal sentiment. But not enough of them vote. And Democracy has been sabatoged.

 

There are many causes:

 

~ Gerrymandering. Mainly Conservative governors have mangles voting districts into geographically bizarre shapes to obtain biased results. For instance, a district might be shaped, octopus-like to isolate 90% Democratic Voters and that district goes to the Democrats. The result is, neigboring districts, similarly shaped, end up with Republican majorities.

 

~ Voter Suppression: Stringent ID laws which affect the disadvantaged the most. Shortened voting hours and days which affect the working poor, predominantly Democratic more than other groups. This resulted in long voting lines in places like Florida in the last election.

 

~ The Right Wing Noise Machine which consists of daily focus groups designed to pinpoint language which affects voters emotional "hot buttons" of the moment. Surveys. A small army of right wing media talkers who get their 'talking points' daily from the aforementioned expensive procedures. Liberals are not nearly as well funded and far behind.

 

~ The development of techiques to disseminate convincing lies to an uninformed, preferrably uneducated public; Started by Goebbels and perfected since then into a highly effective political tool.

 

~ The Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court which allows unprecedented amounts of Big Money into the political process. This decision does not require the donors to reveal their identity.

 

~ The corporate personhood clause of the 14th amendement, giving corporations the rights of people ($$$ and then some$$$).

 

~ To help level the playing field we need public financing and limited duration of campaigns.

 

I'm sure the above only skimmed the surface of the subject.

 

 

 

I think the only thing that more folks voting for republicans signify is that they can move a bit faster in the same ultra right wing corporate friendly direction they are already moving in.

 

Ultimately, maybe the best course is to go for it...let it go right wing as possible, stop all aid and see how fast that system goes down in flames......this trickle and acceptance of crumbs isnt getting the country anywhere. bolding mine.

I suspect all us Liberals have had the idea of letting the system destroy itself in a frenzy of right wing legislation. It may actually happen. But it would be a disaster, very possibly greater than the Great Depression of the 1930s. There would be enormous suffering. And there is not much probability that another FDR would arise to save the Country again. It could end in the complete subjugation of ordinary people.

 

The ultra-rich have enough wealth stockpiled here and abroad to ride out any economic storm and they are keenly aware of it.

 

Of course a multi-party political system would be a better alternative to what we have now in the U.S. it's an elusive goal.

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:) Have you thought of just voting for the person on his or her merits despite their party affiliation? You might try that to see if it works for you.

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:) Have you thought of just voting for the person on his or her merits

I always vote on the merits of the candidate.

 

 

despite their party affiliation?

When I first started voting, I registered independent. As the years passed I didn't find even one Republican who merited my vote. So I switched to Democrat.

 

You might try that to see if it works for you.

Advice is cheap and available everywhere.

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I try to vote for humans.

for example I would seriously consider chris christie were he to run.

 

likely he would have to move to the right to get that nomination . which would in turn kill any consideration i might have

 

christie today however...I think he could do a decent job.

 

I had been looking favorably at Christie until he vetoed a raise in the minimum wage in N.J. $8.50 per hour wasn't unreasonable.

 

Jan 28 (Reuters) -

 

New Jersey's Republican Governor Chris Christie on Monday conditionally vetoed legislation that would increase the state's minimum wage to $8.50 per hour from $7.25 and tie it to the consumer price index.

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Christie often denies he's anti labor despite vetoing the minimum wage raise. But there's plenty of other evidence showing Christie for the hypocrite he is. In reality he's no friend of the ordinary working person:--

 

In December of 2010 used his airtime on 60 Minutes to slam public employees and their unions as the root cause for the huge budget gaps in New Jersey.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/afl-cio-nj-s-christie-used-60-minutes-plat

 

On Jun 28, 2011 - TRENTON, N.J. — New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie signed landmark legislation that increases pension and health contributions paid by a half-million teachers, police and other public workers and removes the issue from collective bargaining for four years

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/28/new-jersey-anti-union-bill-chris-christie_n_885824.html

 

On Apr 18, 2013 At a town hall meeting Christie said to a teacher "Unions are the problem" The governor has clearly taken a page out of the union-busting playbook by trying to brand the union as a self-interested third party, but the teacher sensibly corrected the governor, stating that “teachers are the union.”

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/In-The-States/Gov.-Chris-Christie-Says-Unions-Are-the-Problem

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Posted · Hidden by lostphoenix, September 19, 2013 - Non liberal/ Troll
Hidden by lostphoenix, September 19, 2013 - Non liberal/ Troll

Do not vote for dumbocrats. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

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Yes, it's true elected officials in both parties take legalized bribes from Big Interests in order to stay in office. But many Democratic senators and congressmen get a large proportion of their funding from small donors; ordinary people like me. They need some big donors but are less beholden to them. Republican lawmakers are far more locked into dependence on their corporate and ultra-rich masters.

 

There are still Liberal lawmakers who I believe cast their votes for the interests of ordinary people. The website http://thatsmycongress.com/senate/ lists senators by voting score. There are many more in the House of Representatives. But you are correct, they are getting fewer and the system continues to drift to the political right.

 

Up until the election of FDR in 1933, the system was fixed for the rich and big business. Then as now, both parties were responsible.

 

The FDR years saw an increase in unions and the middle class along with regulation and proportional taxation of big business and the rich. Roosevelt died in 1945 but his ideas had momentum. The percentage of prosperous middle class wage earners peaked in the 1960s and 70s and continued well into the 1990s The election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 marked the beginning of policies which were to cause the destruction of the middle class years later. That destruction is now nearly complete.

 

This is only partially true, otherwise we would have seen the disintigration of the Social Safety Net by now. A shrinking group of Liberal, Democratic lawmakers are holding back the tide.

As a practical matter, I doubt it will happen.

 

The problem is too little participation in the Democratic process, not too much. Studies have shown time and again that the vast majority of eligable U.S. voters are of Liberal sentiment. But not enough of them vote. And Democracy has been sabatoged.

 

There are many causes:

 

~ Gerrymandering. Mainly Conservative governors have mangles voting districts into geographically bizarre shapes to obtain biased results. For instance, a district might be shaped, octopus-like to isolate 90% Democratic Voters and that district goes to the Democrats. The result is, neigboring districts, similarly shaped, end up with Republican majorities.

 

~ Voter Suppression: Stringent ID laws which affect the disadvantaged the most. Shortened voting hours and days which affect the working poor, predominantly Democratic more than other groups. This resulted in long voting lines in places like Florida in the last election.

 

~ The Right Wing Noise Machine which consists of daily focus groups designed to pinpoint language which affects voters emotional "hot buttons" of the moment. Surveys. A small army of right wing media talkers who get their 'talking points' daily from the aforementioned expensive procedures. Liberals are not nearly as well funded and far behind.

 

~ The development of techiques to disseminate convincing lies to an uninformed, preferrably uneducated public; Started by Goebbels and perfected since then into a highly effective political tool.

 

~ The Citizens United decision by the Supreme Court which allows unprecedented amounts of Big Money into the political process. This decision does not require the donors to reveal their identity.

 

~ The corporate personhood clause of the 14th amendement, giving corporations the rights of people ($$$ and then some$$$).

 

~ To help level the playing field we need public financing and limited duration of campaigns.

 

I'm sure the above only skimmed the surface of the subject.

 

I suspect all us Liberals have had the idea of letting the system destroy itself in a frenzy of right wing legislation. It may actually happen. But it would be a disaster, very possibly greater than the Great Depression of the 1930s. There would be enormous suffering. And there is not much probability that another FDR would arise to save the Country again. It could end in the complete subjugation of ordinary people.

 

The ultra-rich have enough wealth stockpiled here and abroad to ride out any economic storm and they are keenly aware of it.

 

Of course a multi-party political system would be a better alternative to what we have now in the U.S. it's an elusive goal.

 

I am not disagreeing with anything you say here.....I just think at this point the citizens are up against it and there is no painless way to fix it. Its going to be painful no matter what because there is no way the puppets (gatekeepers) are going to allow the sorts of reforms that would give the citizens a real say and allow their participation.

 

The corruption is solidly rooted and has a very firm hold...the US citizens will have to create their own regime change...create their own new parties and support them and push them up to carry out their bidding.

 

There is no way to work with the current parties and get changes....it will all now have to be grassroot movements that garner their power from popular support...that means people have to be willing to leave behind this current regime and illusion of democracy. This is why I have a bad reaction to anyone saying we have to vote and work with the two parties we have now etc....we will say that until those parties completely destroy the US and they will simply move operations to some new country as their center of operation.

 

The people with real power have no allegiance to the US, they are just going to milk the US like the cash cow its become...til its dry.

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I am not disagreeing with anything you say here.....I just think at this point the citizens are up against it and there is no painless way to fix it. Its going to be painful no matter what because there is no way the puppets (gatekeepers) are going to allow the sorts of reforms that would give the citizens a real say and allow their participation.

 

The corruption is solidly rooted and has a very firm hold...the US citizens will have to create their own regime change...create their own new parties and support them and push them up to carry out their bidding.

 

There is no way to work with the current parties and get changes....it will all now have to be grassroot movements that garner their power from popular support...that means people have to be willing to leave behind this current regime and illusion of democracy. This is why I have a bad reaction to anyone saying we have to vote and work with the two parties we have now etc....we will say that until those parties completely destroy the US and they will simply move operations to some new country as their center of operation.

 

The people with real power have no allegiance to the US, they are just going to milk the US like the cash cow its become...til its dry.

Your explanation of the problem is spot on. The obstacle to the solution is.... How can a sucessful alternative party be launched without enough support to win an election? There is a long list of failed parties in the U.S. other than the two main ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_%28United_States%29

 

Right now, there is not enough grassroots support for a viable third party and to build one would require super-massive, expensive effort to repair the political damage that years of pervasive, skillful propoganda have wrought. Large numbers of voters in the U.S. have been psychologically conditioned into supporting politicians who mean them no good. Mass tools of persuasion have been used on the American public which were not available even 50 years ago. Many people identify with the agressor; And against their own interests and those they hold dear. They even copy the abusive, bullying style of many right wing median talkers. You have undoubtedly found no lack of the most extreme, and loud posting in the 'no holds barred ' forum. They have become part of the Right Wing Noise Machine.

 

Amazingly, as we speak, that noise machine has managed to convince millions that the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) is an evil plan designed to hurt people..... The Big Lie in action.

 

I agree that the majority U.S. populace is being milked, literally for all it's worth. But things have not hit bottom yet. It may take very extreme conditions of poverty and starvation to get people to wake up and start fighting for themselves. Or, they may remain in thrall to lies and deceit with group set against group and scapegoats to blame. As you can see I for one am pessimistic.

 

There are however, plans out there to accomplish just what you are talking about. One such can be found at: http://www.normangoldman.com/blog/blog-details.asp?BID=180 I would be interested in any further thoughts you have on the subject because I too want positive change.

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....we will say that until those parties completely destroy the US and they will simply move operations to some new country as their center of operation.

 

The people with real power have no allegiance to the US, they are just going to milk the US like the cash cow its become...til its dry.

We are in the uncharted territory of a New Age made possible by expanding and more powerful technologies. As time goes on the magnates of industry will move their operations around the globe looking for cheaper, more subservient labor. Even now there is Labor unrest in places like China and India. That unrest is still in its infancy but people want higher wages and better conditions. They know it's possible because you can't put the knowledge genie back in the bottle.

 

As consumer markets dry up in the U.S. and other countries with a formerly prosperous middle class, new markets will be created by minorities of the affluent in newly industrialized regions. In China for instance because of its huge population, such minorities can comprise many people. But if and when Chinese labor succeeds in improving its outcome, the powerful and privileged will move to new areas to find fresh wage slaves. Eventually they will run out of land and people.

 

As of now, the Labor Union movement in the U.S. is fighting a losing battle with the powers that be. But the Labor Union movement is a dream that cannot die. In my travels I have seen Japanese tourists wearing T-shirts bearing the slogan "World Union Now" with a fist and the word "Labor". Visionaries in India are pushing for the expansion of Labor Unions. European Labor still strongly benefits from unions.

 

I worked many jobs, union and non-union. I was a union steward for many years and have seen the good labor unions can do.

 

World Union to counterbalance World Capitalism. I think that could turn out to be the ultimate solution.

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