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I have seen that argument before, and my argument to it is the same. Where is my free m4?

 

Also, before anyone starts with the "the national guard is the militia" bs. According to current US law, I am part of the militia, as is any other male between the ages of 18 and 35. Where is my m4?

 

 

 

 

That every citizen so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter,How to be armed and accoutred. provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch with a box therein to contain not less than twenty-four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball: or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder

 

dont see anything about an m4...just muskets and flintlocks.

 

I fully agree you should be able to own as many of those as you would wish...that was the intention of the framers of the constuition, NOT an M4

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I have seen that argument before, and my argument to it is the same. Where is my free m4?

 

Also, before anyone starts with the "the national guard is the militia" bs. According to current US law, I am part of the militia, as is any other male between the ages of 18 and 35. Where is my m4?

If you have been properly enrolled and notified by your state, have purchase the musket, firelock and other listed items, and reported to your state appointed officer... then no wonder you are bringing up that issue!!!

 

Assuming that's all true, perhaps your CO thinks there are some more deserving "better shots". If you are lucky enough to score a Hummer ride as a militia member, maybe you might take the M4 off your wish list and ask for an armor kit for that Humvee instead. That armor is highly recommended by the guys you seem to be worried about taking on.

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Do you know how the NICS system works? I will explain it for you. But first, I would interject, car registration, home registration and on and on are state registrations not federal. Anyway. NICS. When you buy a gun from a store, you HAVE to get a backgroun check, same with dealers at gun shows. But before that, you have to fill out a form 4473, which contains all details of the firearm, serial number, caliber, model, make, etc. These files are maintained at the store of purchase for 20 years or until the store goes out of business. When either of these conditions are met the files are turned over to the atf. What happens when the police find a gun at a crime scene? They let the atf know, the atf calls up the manufacturer to find out where they shipped the gun with the serial number the police provided and they get a warrant for that store, they then retrieve the 4473 and go to the person who purched the firearms house and proceed from there. This does exactly what a registration would do, the only difference is that the government doesn't just actively know all of the time who does and does not have a gun. But if they need the information they can already get it. There is literally no reason for a registration of firearms except future confiscation. As has been the case nearly every time a gun registration has ever been implimented.

The problem with this is that there are no huge punishments for losing that form 4473 so the form is not always found. Also, it's highly time consuming to thumb through all of those forms.

Then, there's the Tiarht amendment that doesn't allow law enforcement to compile information to track suspicious gun dealers or gun manufacturers. Plus the Tiarht amendment prevents civil lawsuits against either gun dealers or gun manufacturers if somehow you find them at fault. It also prevents ATF from requiring gun dealers to do regular inventories and report missing guns to the ATF. It's thought that the "missing" guns would turn up guns that were sold illegally.

A gun registry would put all of this information in one place and make it quick and easy for law enforcement to see the whole picture at one time. NRA has fought this tooth and nail because of the "black helicoptor conspiracy excuse" that the government would use this information to confisgate the guns. Since 2005, when the NRA started receiving kickbacks from gun dealers and gun manufacturers, they've ceased being a responsible, safety oriented organization and become a front organization for the gun industry. They profit from illegal gun sales, why would they care who gets the guns?

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I agree something should be done to prevent these mass shootings. But guns are not the cause of the problem. These guns that are being used have been in public hands en masse for nearly 50 years. Yet we only recently start seeing a serious increase in mass shootings. This tells me, looking at it from an unbiased as I can get point, that it is not the gun or availability of the gun that is the cause. It is also important to note that it is fairly recent that felons and mentally unstable people were restricted from owning firearms (FOPA 1986). I don't know what the cause is exactly, maybe it is the heavy use of anti-depressants nowadays, maybe it is the culture, maybe it is video games and tv (very unlikely in my opinion), maybe it is something in the water. I honestly don't know what the cause is. But I can tell you what the cause is NOT, and that is guns.

 

As I said before, I support gun buyback programs, that is fine. If people want to sell their guns, than let them. The only thing I think is foolish is when the groups that host these programs destroy the guns afterwards. These could be put back on the market, selling them with background checks and using the proffits accrued to fund more buyback programs.

Re-selling the guns defeats the purpose of the buy back program. The NRA actually attempted to sue a buy back program in Arizona (I think) and said that they HAD to re-sell the guns. I don't get that but it further fuels my disdain for that organization.

 

I'm almost to the point of agreeing that banning ar15's is a lost cause and might not have any impact but I still have two points. 1. Machine guns were banned and they are almost never used anymore-the legal supply dwindled away 2. Nut jobs who want to shoot up the joint are the types who want AR15's. Hunters don't want them. Most people wanting to protect their home either doesn't want or need them.

 

Universal background checks is a must. Yes, I know all dealers have to use them, but many sales go on without dealers. Somehow, mental health information needs also to be loaded onto these systems. I'm not sure how you get around HIPAA, but it must be done.

 

We need to get rid of the Tiarht amendment and other legislation pushed through by the NRA to handcuff the ATF and law enforcement to protect gun dealers and gun manufacturers. Compiling tracing information should be made available to determine trends that would point out suspicious activities by dealers and manufacturers.

 

Gun trafficking needs to be more of a national emergency. States with strong gun controls still have a high gun crime rate due to a majority of weapons coming from out of state. With the obstructing legislation knocked down, we need to go after the gun dealers who sell dozens of weapons to the same individual who is repeatedly trafficking the guns. Manufacturers need to be afraid to sell to suspicious dealers also.

 

This one is a fantasy because politicians will call it anti-gun propaganda but I'd like to see some public service announcements on tv that show survey numbers exposing the fact that a woman is 6 times more likely to die in a domestic violence case if a gun is in the house. or you are 10 times more likely to get killed by your own gun in the house than to use it to defend yourself, etc... (I might be off on some of these numbers, it's just an idea)

 

Something has to be done about the mentally ill. Services suck. My sister didn't get help (she's bipolar) until she stabbed someone. I couldn't get her help on my own.

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It is already illegal to buy a gun for someone else. It is called a straw purchase. You suggest we pass the same law again?

Yea, but it's not a felony and it should be.

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Hmm, well I think we should have a national clean you gun day. Maybe have target shooting, gun swaps, and gun safety courses. It would help if the city's had large parks that also had shooting ranges included with them, so you could go and pic nik and attend gun events with your neighbors. Lord knows we spend enough on skate board parks and bicycle paths, why not for guns?

 

 

Yeah, I don't think you are really supporting the 2nd, because it is clear, shall not be infringed. If you need a common sense measure for yourself, you should be able to freely practice it.

The "shall not be infringed" part has been disputed by numerous gun laws that have been upheld by the Supreme Court. Even Justice Scalia, the most fire-breathing conservative on the current Supreme Court has said that limits of "unusual weapons" can be limited without violating the 2nd Amendment. He was talking about assault weapons.

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The "shall not be infringed" part has been disputed by numerous gun laws that have been upheld by the Supreme Court. Even Justice Scalia, the most fire-breathing conservative on the current Supreme Court has said that limits of "unusual weapons" can be limited without violating the 2nd Amendment. He was talking about assault weapons.

I think there is a very simple historical explanation for the Second Amendment... If the government made it totally illegal to hold and bear arms, of the type needed for a militia, they would have to go through the legislative process of making in legal to hold and bear such arms in order to call up a militia and legally outfit them for the desired defense. Back then, it could require some rather lengthy trips by legislators before the Legislature could convene to even argue such legislation, let alone the time it would take to inform everyone of that law change.

 

Since then we have developed a very expansive military which has obsolesced the need to even call up a militia. That "call" has been replaced by a military draft on several occasions.

 

For me, this comes down to a " they can, but should they ban some types of weaponry" sort of argument.

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All guns laws should be Federal gun laws - to simplify admin & enforcement. & so that we're not constantly in a fog about what our rights are - currently, they vary from state to state, city to city.

 

I must disagree with this. A rancher in Montana may need a .223 rifle to dispatch predators that may attack livestock, while an inner city thug should certainly not be allowed the same weapon since humans would undoubtedly be the intended prey.

 

I have to agree that the idea of a one size fits all approach to guns is pretty silly, given that Manhattan and Cody Wyoming seem like very different places to me. In Manhattan, you get your kid tickets to the theatre. In Cody, you get him a 22.

 

No one is wrong, by the way. Just different ways of life. In Khazakstan, I believe you get the kid a yak.

 

 

 

dont see anything about an m4...just muskets and flintlocks.

 

I fully agree you should be able to own as many of those as you would wish...that was the intention of the framers of the constuition, NOT an M4

 

It was also their intention that women not have the franchise and that blacks be slaves. We liberals have moved their work forward. They took it from less than one percent of the population deciding everything to more like 10 percent. We continued that work. We called it progress. The flintlock has likewise progressed, it seems.

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I have to agree that the idea of a one size fits all approach to guns is pretty silly, given that Manhattan and Cody Wyoming seem like very different places to me. In Manhattan, you get your kid tickets to the theatre. In Cody, you get him a 22.

 

No one is wrong, by the way. Just different ways of life. In Khazakstan, I believe you get the kid a yak.

 

 

 

It was also their intention that women not have the franchise and that blacks be slaves. We liberals have moved their work forward. They took it from less than one percent of the population deciding everything to more like 10 percent. We continued that work. We called it progress. The flintlock has likewise progressed, it seems.

honestly I could give a fuk about what any of the old slavemasters who wrote the Constitution thought in relation to modern law or civic issues.

 

they are dead...dead people don't get a vote

 

but i hear over and over that the reason that the second amendment is there in the first place is because they wanted it that way.

 

like i said..they're dead, I don't care what they want.

but the slavemasters couldn't possibly envision weapons of the modern day, so I have to point out that argument to others who use the founding fathers as some kind of zombified corpse shield for their beliefs.

 

 

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No one is wrong, by the way. Just different ways of life. In Khazakstan, I believe you get the kid a yak.

The traditional wedding gift for boys of twelve.

 

 

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Posted · Hidden by lostphoenix, March 4, 2013 - troll sok
Hidden by lostphoenix, March 4, 2013 - troll sok

They need to do something about guns. Too many people dying in the streets. I had 2 homies get shot to death.

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Posted · Hidden by lostphoenix, March 3, 2013 - suspected troll?
Hidden by lostphoenix, March 3, 2013 - suspected troll?

We need stricter gun registration laws to make the black community safe from violence

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This is the most liberal I shall ever get in my life: Gun registration, no guns for unstable people or convicts, and finally, no hidden guns in government buildings, I.E. town hall and court houses. Open carry is fine. No more, no less gun laws. Machine guns, belt fed assualt rifles, RPG's, and anything short of mines, chemical and biological agents, and anything that has Uranium and Plutonium in it is a big Hell no.

 

I mean hell yes. Meant hell no for nukes and chemical agents

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This is the most liberal I shall ever get in my life: Gun registration, no guns for unstable people or convicts, and finally, no hidden guns in government buildings, I.E. town hall and court houses. Open carry is fine. No more, no less gun laws. Machine guns, belt fed assualt rifles, RPG's, and anything short of mines, chemical and biological agents, and anything that has Uranium and Plutonium in it is a big Hell no.

 

I mean hell yes. Meant hell no for nukes and chemical agents

Do you thinking that paranoids who think the government is out to get them are in the "unstable" category?

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In a perfect world army comes in takes everyone's guns and I mean everyone. Anyone caught with a gun life imprisonment with no chance of parole-Harsh? very, effective? very.

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In a perfect world army comes in takes everyone's guns and I mean everyone. Anyone caught with a gun life imprisonment with no chance of parole-Harsh? very, effective? very.

 

Agree with this.

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Guess im going to prison. After I take out a few hundred of the sad sacks that try and take my guns.

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Guess im going to prison. After I take out a few hundred of the sad sacks that try and take my guns.

You and quite a few others. I hope that those who support such radical ideas aren't squemish at the sight of blood because there will be rivers of it. I can't say as I would surrender mine peacefully or not. I guess it would depend on my mood.

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Posted · Hidden by lostphoenix, March 12, 2013 - Trolling non liberal
Hidden by lostphoenix, March 12, 2013 - Trolling non liberal

Shall not be infringed.

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The sooner some one asks for my guns, the sooner I would raise Hell.

Hell is a popular concept to raise metaphorically to dramatize an emotional outburst, what is Eternity physically? It does exist for real just not as reality defines it could be, maybe.

 

How does one prove incomplete ideas using theory and theology as reference points?

 

The answer to these could well prevent the necessity for guns to be taken or needed as often.

 

Common understanding, not following common beliefs. One moves others to follow orders without question, the other answers questions about the order of self evident natural balances that cannot be proven or disproven defending segregated ideologies making lifetimes objects of subjectivity..

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The sooner some one asks for my guns, the sooner I would raise Hell.

How about if they come to take just the ones that are held illegally?

Shall not be infringed.

Household defensive weaponry, sure, those types aren't even the issue. Assault weaponry is a different story.

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All my guns are legal. All my MG's were made before the 80's ban, so I require no class 3 to own them. And even if I had some ilegally, what makes you think I would just give them up. Only God Himself could convince me to give any of my guns up.

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