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The Ultimate Trayvon Martin Thread

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How ALEC Is Creating Florida-Style Messes in Other States

John Nichols on March 26, 2012 - 12:18 PM ET

 

Wisconsin is a rod-and-gun state, with a hunting history that has fostered traditions of broad gun ownership and respect for the right to bear arms.

 

So how did Wisconsin get saddled with a “Castle Doctrine” law that mirrors some of the worst aspects of the Florida legislation that's now at the center of the controversy over the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

 

Not because sportsmen and women, law enforcement officers, legal scholars or grassroots citizens decided Wisconsin should borrow bad ideas from distant states.

 

Wisconsin has a "Castle Doctrine" law because the American Legislative Exchange Council, the corporate-funded group that aligns special-interest organizations and corporate donors with pliable legislators, made the Florida law "model legislation." Then ALEC-aligned political insiders such as Assembly Majority Leader Scott Suder, a national ALEC task-force member, and Governor Scott Walker, an ALEC alumnus, introduced, passed and signed “Castle Doctrine” legislation—despite warnings from Wisconsin law enforcement leaders and responsible gun owners that it was a poor fit for the state.

 

How poor a fit became evident last week, when the district attorney in Wisconsin's Washington County announced that he would not pursue a serious inquiry into the death of Bo Morrison, a 20-year-old Wisconsinite who was shot and killed in the village of Slinger. Morrison, who had been at an underage drinking party that was broken up by the police, was one of a number of young people who ran and hid in the surrounding neighborhood. He was hiding on the porch of an adjacent home when the homeowner—who knew police were in the area—shot him in the chest. The DA determined that the homeowner was protected from prosecution by the state's new "Castle Doctrine."

 

The Wisconsin case is complicated, and no one has suggested that Morrison was a perfect player. But he was unarmed. And there is no evidence that he physically or verbally threatened the shooter. For that reason, the decision of the DA , and the narrowing of options for a proper investigation by the "Castle Doctrine," has provoked outrage from citizens and some legislators. State Representative Chris Taylor, a Madison Democrat and a lawyer who was outspoken in her opposition to the measure last year, now says: “It is heartbreaking that the legislature allowed this reckless law to go forward and now a young man is dead,” concluded Taylor. “This law encourages people to resort to vigilantism and use deadly force instead of calling the police. This is a barbaric law that must be immediately repealed.”

 

But how did the legislature enact a measure that is so out-of-synch with the state's traditionally well reasoned approach to gun rights, self-defense protections and the rule of law?

 

more at the link

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There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation out there about this event. The easy way out is to say the Sanford PD is racist, and that this racist Hispanic Democrat shot this "honor student" because he hated him or some other reasoning. Or perhaps we can entertain facts and reason for a moment. Perhaps we can remove emotion and implant our brains into this equation. Perhaps we can read the police report, which describes the police coming on the scene of a man covered in grass stains with a bleeding face and a gash in the back of his bloody head, with a dead black male in the vicinity. Some would argue that the police surveillance footage shows Zimmerman being taken into the police station looking completely clean. Those same people don't realize that a gash is visible on the back of his head, and that the police report detailed how he was given medical attention and was cleaned up on the scene when the paramedics arrived. By the time he was finally taken to the station, the bleeding had most definitely stopped because his wounds had been attended to.

 

Regardless whether you want to believe the police report or not, it does not matter. Should you have to receive a horrific beating within an inch of your life to be justified in defending yourself? Can you be afraid for your life without being attacked? Another question: what if Zimmerman walked away and Martin then went on to kill, rape, or rob somebody while they were waiting for the police to arrive? Would everyone then be upset that Zimmerman, as a neighborhood watch authority, didn't step in and "do his job?" I do not believe Martin would have done anything had Zimmerman walked away, but the question remains. Zimmerman's brother just stated publicly that the medical records exist and are going to be published for the public to see. If this death is such an "outrage," then why hasn't Zimmerman been arrested yet? If this is in fact murder, then why hasn't he been arrested yet? If his guilt is so obvious to you, sitting at your computer, and has somehow passed by the police, who were actually working the scene, then why hasn't he been arrested yet? The police haven't arrested him yet because they either have a clear case of self defense or they don't have enough evidence to arrest him for murder. Either way that doesn't change the fact that the public does not know everything and there are some (many) details that are still behind closed doors because the investigation is still ongoing. The only thing I do know is that Zimmerman is not in custody for a reason and we have yet to truly know what that reason is. I think we should wait till it all comes to light before making final conclusions, but in the meantime we can only trust that the police are doing their jobs and are ensuring justice is being done. There is also a Federal investigation underway in case you don't trust the Sanford PD, so you should for now be content in knowing that multiple investigations are doing what they can to get to the bottom of this and get some solid answers.

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...Can you be afraid for your life without being attacked?...

 

I guess we'll never be able to ask this question of Trayvon Martin.

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Posted at 06:40 AM ET, 03/29/2012

George Zimmerman’s crumbling story, part 1: the video

By Jonathan Capehart

 

The killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman — the case where nothing makes sense, nothing — gained greater clarity in the last couple days. The story put forth by the Sanford Police Department and by Zimmerman “friend” Joe Oliver is starting to crumble.

 

more at the link

 

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Should you have to receive a horrific beating within an inch of your life to be justified in defending yourself?

A person must reasonably believe that he or she is in danger of great bodily harm or death in order to justify the use of deadly force.

According to Zimmerman's brother, Zimmerman was beaten almost to the point of unconsciousness, yet he was not immediately taken to the hospital, and 35 minutes later on the police video, he looks perfectly fine. EMTs would surely have taken him to the hospital to check out such a serious head injury.

 

Another question: what if Zimmerman walked away and Martin then went on to kill, rape, or rob somebody while they were waiting for the police to arrive?

Out of the two, the person with a record of violence was Zimmerman, not Martin, so it would seem more likely that he would be the one to commit a violent act.

 

Would everyone then be upset that Zimmerman, as a neighborhood watch authority, didn't step in and "do his job?"

His job as a neighborhood watch authority is to watch. Not to try and apprehend what he thinks are suspicious people.

BTW, Zimmerman was a self-appointed neighborhood watch person with no ties to any organized watch groups.

Legitimate watch groups always recommend that their members do not carry a firearm while performing watch duties.

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...

Legitimate watch groups always recommend that their members do not carry a firearm while performing watch duties.

 

This is the one single point which probably would have saved Trayvon Martin's life. Had Zimmerman not felt "empowered" by the firearm he had in his possession that fateful night, the ass hole probably would have stayed in his friggin' vehicle and just observed what Martin was doing and where he was going.

Edited by tech guy

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It ceases to amaze me how people arguing this issue are not letting the facts contribute to your decision. I have posted on other trayvon sites. The bottom line is that George Zimmerman is innocent and he was the victim in this confrontation.

 

trayvon attacked zimmerman while z was walking back to his vehicle

trayvon went for the gun(which zimmerman NEVER had out of it's holster during the entire altercation)and was either shot by z in self defense or the gun went off by accident.

 

conclusion, zimmerman is innocent and a young thug won't be attacking anyone else.

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It ceases to amaze me how people arguing this issue are not letting the facts contribute to your decision. I have posted on other trayvon sites. The bottom line is that George Zimmerman is innocent and he was the victim in this confrontation.

 

trayvon attacked zimmerman while z was walking back to his vehicle

trayvon went for the gun(which zimmerman NEVER had out of it's holster during the entire altercation)and was either shot by z in self defense or the gun went off by accident.

 

conclusion, zimmerman is innocent and a young thug won't be attacking anyone else.

 

... and Zimmerman played absolutely no part in invoking a violent response from Martin. glare.gif

 

puleeze,,,

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Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman's Lawyers Won't Comment on Police Video

 

Zimmerman's Lawyer Responds to Surveillance Tape

 

By MATT GUTMAN

March 29, 2012

The surveillance tape of George Zimmerman made barely half an hour after the shooting, obtained exclusively by ABC News from the Sanford Police Department, could be used as evidence, if Zimmerman is brought up on charges, sources tell ABC News.

 

Zimmerman's attorney would not comment on the tapes, which show his client walking into a police station with no visible signs of blood minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin following what Zimmerman claims was a life-or-death struggle with the teen.

 

"I'm not going to litigate this case in the media," said attorney Craig Sonner. "It looks like it's a standard booking video of when they brought him in. I can't tell anything from this video."

 

more at the link

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zim had every right to patrol his neighborhood.trayvon fit the description of the thugs breaking in to homes in their gated community.

 

trayvon did have a bag of burglary tools with him. that tidbit is still being supressed by most news outlets.

 

so, NO zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood, protecting his and his neighborhood's property and wathcing out for suspicious people like trayvon

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...trayvon did have a bag of burglary tools with him. that tidbit is still being supressed by most news outlets.

 

...

 

Care to provide a link for this claim?

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Posted at 10:15 AM ET, 03/29/2012

George Zimmerman’s crumbling story, part 2: the mortician

By Jonathan Capehart

 

The killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman — the case where nothing makes sense, nothing — gained greater clarity in the last couple days. The story put forth by the Sanford Police Department (SPD) and by Zimmerman “friend” Joe Oliver is starting to crumble.

 

The SPD video ABC News aired last night raised serious doubts about Zimmerman’s account of a life-and-death struggle. Then, Richard Kurtz, the funeral director of the mortuary that received Trayvon’s body, stepped forward last night on MSNBC’s “The Last Word” to knock another huge hole in Zimmerman’s story. The unarmed 17-year-old showed no signs of struggle.

 

more at the link

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...trayvon did have a bag of burglary tools with him. that tidbit is still being supressed by most news outlets.

 

...

 

Care to provide a link for this claim?

 

Nothing?

 

OK, then we'll just go with you're a BIG FAT LIAR.

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'Stand Your Ground' Laws Promote Vigilante Mentality

March 29, 2012|Dan Gross | U.S. News & World Report

 

Florida's so-called stand your ground law was a deadly mistake and should be repealed. But that law is only one chapter of a larger, tragic story--the gun lobby pushing to realize its vision of an America where dangerous people like George Zimmerman walk among us, with a vigilante mentality, carrying the guns to make that mentality deadly.

 

In practice, "stand your ground" really means "shoot first and ask questions later." These laws, enacted in over 20 states, radically changed the centuries-old legal rule that the use of lethal force in self-defense should be a last resort, when there is no avenue of escape or avoidance for a person under attack. According to police and prosecutors, these laws have allowed countless dangerous individuals to literally "get away with murder" by claiming "self-defense" in situations where deadly force easily could have been avoided.

 

But while Florida's "shoot first" law may be the reason George Zimmerman is still free and uncharged with any crime, Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman had a gun. Whatever happened between them that night, if George Zimmerman did not have a gun with him, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

 

more at the link

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zim had every right to patrol his neighborhood.trayvon fit the description of the thugs breaking in to homes in their gated community.

 

trayvon did have a bag of burglary tools with him. that tidbit is still being supressed by most news outlets.

 

so, NO zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood, protecting his and his neighborhood's property and wathcing out for suspicious people like trayvon

 

The bag you are referring to was a backpack with jewelry and a screw driver in it, I'm pretty sure that was found during a past search at his school, not at the crime scene. Even if it was found at the crime scene, it wouldn't justify the killing of Martin, onlyproving self defense will do that.

Edited by tobe

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Anyone else watch Piers Morgan last night? Is Robert Zimmerman, Jr. just repeating George Zimmerman's lies?

 

He claimed George Zimmerman was beaten nearly unconscious by Trayvon Martin, but does this really add up? We have seen George Zimmerman entering the police station a little over half an hour after the fatal shooting. He doesn't appear to have any serious injuries. If George Zimmerman was beaten as badly as Robert Zimmerman, Jr. claims, shouldn't he have been taken to a hospital to be checked out by a physician?

 

Another eye witness has come forward and this person claims George Zimmerman was up and walking around only moments after gunning down Trayvon Martin.

 

 

Zimmerman’s Brother Comes to His Defense: ‘He Stopped Someone From Disarming Him’

George Zimmerman's brother, Robert Jr., says that Trayvon Martin was shot to death because he tried to take away the gun that was eventually fired and killed him.

By MADISON GRAY | @madisonjgray | March 30, 2012 |

 

Robert Zimmerman Jr. is steadfast in his defense of his brother George, insisting that he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin to death in self-defense only because the teenager attacked him and attempted to take his gun, putting Zimmerman in mortal danger. “That’s called ‘saving your life,’” Robert Zimmerman Jr. said.

 

He appeared Thursday on CNN’s Piers Morgan Tonight denying that Zimmerman pulled a gun from its holster and fired, instead saying that “he stopped someone from disarming him and shooting him, he didn’t pull out a gun and shoot him. George showed tremendous restraint.”

 

But according to an initial police report, Zimmerman told officers arriving at the scene of the Sanford, Fla., incident that he shot Trayvon Martin. Police reported that they found Trayvon lying face down on the ground and could not revive him. Zimmerman’s father, Robert Sr., told Orlando’s WOFL-TV in a silhouetted interview that the teen attacked his son, threatening to kill him. “At some point,” Robert Sr. said, “George pulled his pistol and did what he did.” His information was based on his own conversations with his son and others, he said.

 

Zimmerman has claimed that Trayvon pummeled him, broke his nose and smashed his head against the ground, causing severe injuries. But a police surveillance video obtained Wednesday by ABC News, showed Zimmerman handcuffed in police custody and apparently without any of the injuries that would be consistent with a life-or-death struggle. But his brother insists that he actually was hurt and was treated at the scene.

 

However, a unidentified man who claimed to see the shooting told CNN that he saw the two of them fighting on the grass, and heard one of them yell for help in the darkness, then a gunshot. He then saw one figure get up, a larger figure and a boy remained face down on the ground. He said the person who got up did not appear hurt. “As far as seeing any blood, or anything else, no.”

 

more at the link

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Thank, Henry. As a gun owner myself, I'm cautious when it comes to government, either state or federal, interfering with rights to lawfully own or carry. I was vaguely aware when this law was passes in Florida, but really had no idea the extent to which it had been lobbied and passed in other states. The map is interesting, as the states with this law now are mostly southern and mid-western to western, including Washington and Oregon. To me, if this Zimmerman/Martin tragedy is any indicator, and I think it is, these laws need to be placed under very close scrutiny and a determination made if they go too far in allowing defendants to claim self defense. I think this case highlights specifically what can occur when a person lies dead from a fatal gunshot wound and there is no one but the gun owner to answer the questions. Of course, we are now hearing there may be some credible witnesses to bits and pieces about the Zimmerman/Martin confrontation, but so far those statements still haven't given us a clear understanding of what happened the night of February 26th.

 

 

LOL! You idiots all fell for the media tricks - this has nothing about the law and everything about a man's life in danger and he did what he had to do to protect his life. If Zimmerman was not carrying a weapon he would be dead today!

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...If Zimmerman was not carrying a weapon he would be dead today!

 

Sorry, but I don't believe this statement. The Zimmerman family and their cohorts can repeat this endlessly and it still won't convince me. The truth is, George Zimmerman couldn't handle a fist fight he was ultimately responsible for starting, and instead took the coward's way out by using deadly force.

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This is the one single point which probably would have saved Trayvon Martin's life.

And perhaps cost George Zimmerman his life that night.

 

Wait ... Rule #1 ... Don't try to debate a Truther (especially one who might have been a 911Truther). It's an exercise in futility. :D

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And perhaps cost George Zimmerman his life that night.

 

Wait ... Rule #1 ... Don't try to debate a Truther (especially one who might have been a 911Truther). It's an exercise in futility. :D

 

Look! A ball of yarn!

 

20fw028.jpg

 

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Sorry, but I don't believe this statement. The Zimmerman family and their cohorts can repeat this endlessly and it still won't convince me. The truth is, George Zimmerman couldn't handle a fist fight he was ultimately responsible for starting, and instead took the coward's way out by using deadly force.

 

for exercising his rights to walk where he wanted and for exercising his obligation to his neighborhood by following a suspicious person, he should not have to handle a fist fight that he had no responsibility starting.

 

he used what force warranted-unlike martin, who was clearly and obviously irrational and offered an inappropriate response

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Look! A ball of yarn!

Look! A TrayvonTruther who refuses to answer the very simple question ... "Were/are you a 911Truther?". :D

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Stand Your Ground Laws: What Should We Do When State Law Trumps Common Sense?

Posted by Jordan Margolis, Attorney, March 30, 2012 12:08 PM

 

The February 26, 2012 shooting of 17 year old Trayvon Martin provides a tragic example of how ineffectively and dangerously our nation's Stand Your Ground laws operate. Florida, along with approximately 20 other states in the U.S., enacted legislation that eliminates the common law requirement for an individual to retreat, rather than use force, when confronted with danger outside his or her home. Stand Your Ground laws provide citizens (untrained by the police or by gun-safety professionals) carte blanche to justify their use of deadly weapon by claiming "self-defense".

 

A University of Miami Law Review Note, writted by Zachary L. Weaver, describes Florida's "Stand Your Ground" Law's origin and effects.

 

Florida's "Protection of Persons/Use of Force Bill expanded an individual's legal right to use force in self-defense, including deadly force, without fear of criminal or civil consequences... Although it should have troubled the legislature that the individuals charged with enforcing the law - prosecutors and law enforcement - opposed the law, the dissent by these groups did not dissuade the Florida Legislature. The law passed with unanimous approval in the Florida Senate and passed overwhelmingly in the Florida House of Representatives. 63 U. Miami L. Rev. 395

 

Stand Your Ground law's catapulted into legislation with the aid of the National Rifle Association [and American Legislative Exchange Council], and its pro-2nd Amendment advocacy has been controversial from the get-go. Critics suggest that these laws were adopted in such a rushed fashion that law makers didn't devote the time necessary to carefully draft precise and unambigous language on such an important subject matter. Florida police's decision to NOT arrest Trayvon Martin's killer, George Zimmerman, provides a glaring illustration of how the law's current language reads and what consequences result.

 

more at the link

 

Look! A TrayvonTruther who refuses to answer the very simple question ... "Were/are you a 911Truther?". :D

 

Look! A squirrel!

 

15iayvm.jpg

 

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