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Falchion

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    Democrat

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  1. I think there is no getting around the fact that you could not design a better opponent than Donald Trump. He is in all ways a knuckle dragging throwback to an age we don't want to return to. He and his image was a godsend to ANY competent candidate. The fact that liberals snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory has to say something to us. If it doesn't shake the very foundations of our complacency then NOTHING will ever do it. To the people who decided the election, we did not even extend a crumb of concern about their economic woes. We were to all fired fired up about insuring rights that were ALREADY there!! We nailed the nailed door shut, doing things that no one asked us to do! We were too fired up at defeating a baboon that we let him win. WE DID IT! What does it take to let that recognition sink in? Did someone hold a gun to our heads before the election? I'm pretty sure they did not. All he had to say (not very convincingly mind you) was "I hear your pain, I'll do something about it". We were too all fired wise to do even that small bit. Now we sit here with a Republican President, a Republican Congress (BOTH houses) and a Republican Supreme Court. That is the TRIFECTA OF FAIL!! It is unbelievable that there is still resistance to embracing that fact. It plain does not matter that Hillary won the popular vote by a small margin. In the end, she, we, and everyone knew how the game was played before we started. If it should have been fixed now, it should have been fixed then. Now it is just too late. If she was soo popular, then the EC should not have mattered. By the reasoning of "the people who matter", Trump was going to get stomped. HE DID NOT! This should tell us something very loudly. If it was about racism and white mean old people not liking us, then Obama would never have been a two term president. Think about it!!!! He got elected, not ONCE but TWICE!! What the electorate wants is to know that someone hears them and will do something. That is all I'm saying. This election was really close but if we now say we can't bend a millimeter, we deserve what we get! We deserve 8 years of a baboon running the country. We deserve to lose EVERY popular vote so we can cry in our milk. Because we have denied our ability to change, to make a different choice than before. We CAN tell EVERYONE in this country we care about how they make a living, how they get their money. And do something real about it. Not just people of this stripe or that stripe. That is all election design and pandering. We DID that and it didn't carry the election. If it worked, we'd live in a different world. Ask yourself how deep the denial goes?? What does it take to make us change? I humbly suggest if this doesn't do it we deserve exactly what we get because we are too stupid to boil water.
  2. I will gently suggest that the time and resources arguments pales when you consider how much money the Democratic party spent to fail. We outspent the other side AND STILL LOST. That says that the resources weren't wasted but grossly misapplied. Resources and effort are not the problem, the target IS. I will also gently suggest that the question, as posed, can be summed up as, "how do I get them to agree that I am right", that is our "liberal vision" is one that they should embrace. I would say that politics is not getting the other guy to agree I am right, but rather getting them to work with me for a COMMON future. Not my future or their future but one we hold together and believe in. That means we have to give up a bit on my side and they give a up a bit on their side. If we start in the place of, "what I think and how it is implemented is automatically right" then we just put a great deal of the world outside. I'll also say we tried that and it kinda didn't work. It is time for us to dig deep and change. I also hope that it is visible, that this is just applying the same kind of labeling that the right has used on us, only in a negative fashion. Being the negative antithesis of their viewpoint is automatically limiting. It is the principle of warfare. When we go down that route the only method to win is to be dirtier than the other guy, meaner then the other guy, more willing to dive in the gutter than the other guy. We salve our conscious by saying, "but our goals are so much loftier!" Sorry, but any pathway that requires us to wallow in the gutter asks us to give up who we are to win. That would be a net loss. Warfare is a race to the bottom. Look at everyone ever fought. Napalm, mines, atomic bombs, false rhetoric and deceptions are not inventions of the high minded. Anybody who tells you that they are, is lying from the get go. I will also gently suggest that calling it pretty much screams that you don't feel their pain. There is no empathy and understanding in that response. You have negated every reason for their actions. Yet they HAVE acted! We have an election that proves it. It says you don't live in their town, look at their people who can't find a job, look at the empty factory everyday, look at people who don't have a dignified way to make a living and that by golly they should just believe as I do. It says that they don't know that there is MONEY and a way of living just outside their reach and that government can move it so it is inside their reach. With the internet, there is no rational reason why a job, and way of living is over here as opposed to over there other than the convenience of the rich. It screams, if they don't like it, they should just MOVE! I don't know how this can possibly work. I can't imagine anyone being convinced to change their mind with the simple statement, "Oh! here's the problem! Everything you believe is bullshit!" If that were so, the election would have been different. It is naïve to believe that everyone believes the way I do. We have to start with a recognition that no one acts in a way that they feel is irrational. They just DON'T. These people were rational enough and had sufficient motivation to find a voting booth and vote! If you want to change the world, and you are part of the world, change what you think. I suggest that we change it now or we are asking, no begging to get kicked in the teeth yet again. Losing again to a no brainer, less than worthy, mud grubbing, inexperienced git should be a once a millennia experience and definitely not repeated. But it is up to US.
  3. Hey kfbvoice! I and everyone should could consider seriously what you post. Because right now we have to figure out what the blazes happened. What I see, here and other places, is finger pointing that says that someone somewhere else was responsible. You can point at the polls, the FBI, you name it and THEY are the ones that made this happen. It can't be what I have done, what I have thought that made this occur. I'd like to offer another thought. WE are the ones that made this happen. With our blindness, with our hubris, with our blithe assumptions, with our absolute assurance, WE MADE THIS HAPPEN. I doubt very much you could have found very many people predicting Hillary's loss BEFORE the election. But the results are blindingly obvious. The single big issue of the economy sat there and stared us all in the face and instead we made it about rights and making sure that all the rights were parceled out to the people to which we thought would obtain the election. The elephant was roaming around the room and yet somehow, everyone who mattered, that is everyone didn't see it until it stomped us flat. I think the thing to understand is that this election was actually VERY close. A little time, a little effort and a little outreach could have tipped it differently. It was our dangerous assumptions that led us over the edge. This is a profound statement. And my answer is, "Welcome to politics". Politics is where serious divides are resolved. If the serious divides are not resolved its called, "war" because the only recourse is physical domination using weapons. What we have in this country in place of politics is war, plain and simple. If we want to make war, we don't have a country any more. End of story. If we want to have a country, we have to resolve these serious divides. Unless we want to be liars, we can only resolve this by actually seeing the other side and giving them their due. We have to OFFER something. Right now, the liberal side offers these folks nothing so they would rather elect a baboon than the person who is more concerned about corporations than about them because at least the baboon MIGHT give them something whereas they know the old "politics as usual" gives them nothing. I will offer up (deliberate choice of words), that if we had offered the people with whom we shared a common ground of wanting economic parity a crumb, the election might have gone much differently. We did not. This is absolutely true. The GOP did not modify its message, Trump DID. He went off of their message whenever he felt he needed to win. I believe he saw he could not win spouting the GOP's message so he made it more populist and the unwashed and unrepresented masses embraced him because he was the only populist on the ballot. Hillary said, "I will represent you if you are specifically one of these groups and (hand wave, hand wave, harrumph, harrumph) if you, harrumph, are one of these people. Those folks correctly read the harrumphs and chose someone else. Our misfortune is that he had long coattails. Again, I'll just kindly as possible say, we LOST and we lost because of what we assumed was unchangeable. We didn't change and lost, we CAN change and win. Which will it be? It is up to each and every one of us to decide where that line is. I'll only suggest that if we say we aren't going to change and the other side has to, we might as well throw a temper tantrum and hold our breath for all the effect it will have.
  4. kfbvoice, I understand what you are saying. It the same thing we've been saying for the last 4 years. It is just a retrenching into the old and now LOST battle lines. The liberals could not have designed a better candidate to be AGAINST than Trump. You just couldn't. The only thing that would have stopped him was murdering a baby on camera. The world fairly salivated at the prospect of this knuckle dragging goon being annihilated publicly by the oh-so-wise. Guess what, he WON! Saying that you can NEVER reach these people means you will NEVER reach these people. These people YOU set aside just won the election. That is an irrefutable fact. You can choose to not accept it or you can see that it is true and change what YOU do. Continuing to form a coalition of "us" creates a "them". The truth is, if you spoke to them, there are some you can find common ground with. There are some that you can even find things to admire them in. But if you don't even try, if you don't even look and just write them off, they will do the same to you and they DID! I'm only saying, there needs to be an effort to reach out to the ones that there is common ground with. The common ground is an intense desire to benefit the people, ALL the people, not just the ones you approve of. If you cannot bend, you break. The left needs to offer something new. Being the automatic opposite of the Republicans is self limiting and eventually futile. We just proved it, big time. Realize it and change. Or don't and get used to this.
  5. If the idea of "liberal" has any meaning, we must adapt to the world we live in. As Einstein said, "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results IS the definition of insanity". Coming out of this election, if we retrench back to our old and comfortable lines, we insure the same process repeats. The reality is that this country's vote split pretty much down the middle. One half of the people voted for Trump and one half voted for Hillary. Because of our own arcane and unchanged rules, Trump won. That is a reality that we have to accept before we do anything else. TRUMP WON. Let your head wrap around that one for a moment. This is the president we have to live with for the next 4 years whether you want to or not. Saying anything else, wanting to play the election over or having some other process try to save us, is just grasping at straws. If we want this to be different then we need to BE different. The biggest fallacy of this campaign (and I was guilty of it too), was that Trump was so flawed that NO ONE would vote for him. He kept proving it over and over again so it seemed a no brainer. Guess what, that is a fallacy. 1 out of 2 people would and DID vote for him. This is an absolutely proven fact. The more Trump's flaws were pointed out, the more determined we made people to vote for him. What he DID do is offer people a choice over the tried and true Washington insider. He held out the promise and the possibility of something different beyond the same people reaping the rewards and the same people being left out. Guess what? The same people were very tired of being on the losing end. They were tired of their work closing and being left out of the economic upturn. People generally didn't want Trump but he was the only one in the ring that offered something different. He was the only one that did not scream "politics as usual!" Hillary came out and said, "If you like Obama, I'll give you more of the same!" The result tells us that wasn't enough. If we had accepted the split when it was first presented, that 1 out of 2 people would feel left out, that would have told us that you have to reach out to those people to reach them. Even a little! You can't take everyone with you but even a very few would have made a huge difference. It was entirely possible to reach to the set of people who had no job opportunities and give them those, It was entirely possible to listen to those people and give at least some of them a place at the table. When the decision was made that they weren't needed, they turned out in droves to tell the world that they were relevant. Calling that anything but a mistake is fruitless face saving. It WASN'T money. Hillary and crew spent boatloads. Poorly apparently because they didn't buy the election. Throwing more money at it is just stupidity if there isn't a message that resonates. Guess what? Insuring that every minority group gets their rights is not a resonating message unless you include EVERY group. If you put them in a basket they see themselves that way and vote that way. This IS reality for at least the next 10 years. It will take at least that long for significant numbers of the white, older, un-college educated, currently left behind to die off enough to impact the elections. 10 years is a long time to be out of power. If the liberal side of the argument reaches for the familiar it makes a mistake. Liberals need a message that include a significant chunk of the folks that voted for "something, anything DIFFERENT". It is entirely possible to offer these folks an education and an ability to get a job. Make them one of us instead of not us. Liberals cannot keep playing the game of automatically being on the other side from the right. "For everything they do, we do the opposite." That is just being the "loyal opposition". You let them set the agenda and we are on the negative side. Being a liberal has to stand for something, to take risks, to bring the benefits to people not normally thought of. If it doesn't, it just sets up to lose again. The liberal message already resonates, "give rights to EVERYONE" and this time don't automatically assume that white males know they are included when clearly they are not. You have to actively reach out to that group. This might be hard but seeing that this group already sees they are a group and excluded should tell us something. After all 10 years is a LONG, LONG time to lose.
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